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Thread: Journal of theoretical Dialectics-Physics-Mathematics

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    Default Journal of theoretical Dialectics-Physics-Mathematics

    This is an extremely interesting Russian journal that attempts to state Dialectical principles in mathematical terms. Marxist economics was the fist to seriously introduce mathematical calculation with the determination of value. Marx's labor theory is the only portion of his political economy integrated into bourgeois economics under mathmatical calculation. Because those works are so technical and obscure, even using Marxist ideas do not threaten the bourgeois world-view. This is an important step in going beyond simply restating Engel's 3 laws, and turning DiaMat into an actual science.

    http://www.dialectical-physics.org/index.htm

    With its outstanding achievements in exact sciences, especially physics, the 20th century will rightfully take a special place in the history of human kind. However, at present physics increasingly lags behind general progress, raising serious doubts about some of its basic concepts. To some extent, this is also true of mathematics. Therefore, it seems to be necessary to revise the basic axioms of physics and mathematics and to analyze them from the general standpoint of Dialectics (Dialectical Logic and Dialectical Philosophy).
    For the first time in science the bases mathematical dialectics with the application to fundamental questions of physics and mathematics are stated on the basis of a dialectical binary numerical wave field, which opportunities considerably surpass existing traditional mathematical methods.
    Articles are designed for professionals natural and social sciences, teachers of high schools, and also on students looking in the future, and can serve as the manual on dialectics, physics and mathematics in system of higher education.
    All subsequent articles are written in language of dialectics and a dialectical binary numerical wave field, and assume knowledge of articles published here: Issue [B-01] - MATHEMATICAL EXPRESSION OF THE MAIN CATEGORIES OF DIALECTICAL PHILOSOPHY AND LOGIC .

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    Yes, I have seen this , and they too do not tell us what they mean by things like 'dialectical contradiction', except they repeat the same tired old formulae, and indulge in plenty of a priori dogmatics (imposing this theory on numbers, not just reality).

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    i think mathematics and physics are alright without this religious elements.
    Formerly dada

    [URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic

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    Indeed, you can find similar stuff wriiten by Buddhists, who think modern Physics and maths is all Zen...

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    Or Pytnagoras praying to the number ten /. But Pythagoras was awesome, so he can be excused
    Formerly dada

    [URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic

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    Unfortunately, the vast majority of Pythagoras's 'discoveries' were in fact made by his disciples:

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n04/burn02_.html

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    Strange that the author never mentions Marx, Engels or Hegel despite clearly describing Materialist Dialectics. Perhaps an attempt to take Marx out of DiaMat like the Dialectics4kids page? Except that there are obvious connotations to concepts like base-superstructure.

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    Even stranger: why on earth are they bothering with the ideas of a logical incompetent like Hegel?

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    Resume
    In this issue [B-01] the bases the differentially integral logic and philosophy of physical processes, both continuous and discontinuous are considered. This system is named as the dialectical analysis, or dialectics, as the series of its axioms belongs to Hegel's dialectical phylosophy and logic. As a special case, Hegel's dialectics includes Aristotle's logic and metaphysics.
    Methods of dialectical analysis possess the broad conceptual and mathematical apparatus which contains both classical derivatives of continuous processes and discrete derivatives of discrete processes.
    The mathematical basis of dialectics is the quantitatively qualitative numerucal field, which includes, as a specific and very limited case, the field of complex numbers. The quantitatively qualitative numerical field is more genuine and obvious than the field of complex numbers. In the definite sense, the numerical field is analogous to the electromagnetic field.
    The numerical field of dialectics and its logical apparatus make it possible to describe and solve many problems in the simplest and most comprehensive way, such as-: physical, technical, technological and those which could not be solved by classical analysis.
    The field of quantitatively qualitative numbers allows us to consider two principal types of continuity and discreteness: additive and multiplicative. Therefore, this field considers both the classical differentials, derivatives, and
    integrals of continuous sums and the multiplicative differentials, derivatives, and integrals of continuous products. Although the multiplicative differentially integral calculus can be expressed by the classical additive differentially integral calculus, the two calculuses differ in principle. The multiplicative calculus allows us to see a great many facts which would be impossible to find by the classical additive calculus.
    The logical algebra of dialectics operates discontinuous, continuous and discontinuously continuous judgements, whereas the mathematical logic is based on two elementary constant judgements with measures 1 and 0. This means that dialectical analysis makes it possible in principle to develop new structures of microprocessors and effective methods of computer programming. They will allow us to adequately model (describe) intellectual processes first of all on the intuitive level where the logic of thinking is most effective. Note that the laws of the intuitive level of thinking are concerned with the level of the Universe.
    The fields of quantitatively qualitative differentially integral judgements and numbers are the "Physics" of logical thinking, i.e. the mathematical image of real logical processes. Therefore, without dialectical analysis, it is impossible to create an artificial intellect in the deep sense of the word. It is also impossible to make the essential theoretical and practical progress for understanding of the atomic and elementary particles structure where superhigh frequencies and vast speeds play a role.
    I never read this stuff.....reminds me of an american - cant remember his name - who tried this in the 60s and 70s (think his website is still up)

    The resume above shows they dont ignore Hegel.

    Not sure why it is unfortunate that Pythogoras' disciples invented what is ascribed to him.
    "Dixi et salvavi animam meam" - quoted by Marx
    "Things rarely work out well if one aims at 'moderation'..." - Engels
    "By and by we heare newes of shipwrack in the same place, then we are too blame if we accept it not for a Rock." Sir Philip Sydney
    "The most to be hoped for by groups who claim to belong to the Marxist succession (...) is for them to serve as a hyphen between past and future....nothing can be held sacred – everything is called into question. Only after having been put through such a crucible could socialism conceivably re-emerge as a viable doctrine and plan of action." - Van Heijenoort

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    ^^^Michael Kosok:

    http://www.thenewdialectics.org/

    A card-carrying mystic.

    The resume above shows they dont ignore Hegel.
    Yes I noticed that health warning too.


    Not sure why it is unfortunate that Pythogoras' disciples invented what is ascribed to him.
    Unfortunate for Marmot's view of Pythagoras, no one else.

    I see you still need new glasses...

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    Unfortunate for Marmot's view of Pythagoras,
    I would have thought it was quite 'awesome' (to use that term) to have set up such a sect. Its not my eyes that need fixing, its just your logic is a bit weak on this minor point.

    Your right it was Kosok.....same sort of stuff as this guy I think....and both working physicists it seems
    "Dixi et salvavi animam meam" - quoted by Marx
    "Things rarely work out well if one aims at 'moderation'..." - Engels
    "By and by we heare newes of shipwrack in the same place, then we are too blame if we accept it not for a Rock." Sir Philip Sydney
    "The most to be hoped for by groups who claim to belong to the Marxist succession (...) is for them to serve as a hyphen between past and future....nothing can be held sacred – everything is called into question. Only after having been put through such a crucible could socialism conceivably re-emerge as a viable doctrine and plan of action." - Van Heijenoort

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    Gil:

    I would have thought it was quite 'awesome' (to use that term) to have set up such a sect. Its not my eyes that need fixing, its just your logic is a bit weak on this minor point.
    Coming from someone who thinks arguments can be false, this is a bit rich.

    What makes your response even less aposite is that my reply was in response to this comment of yours:

    Not sure why it is unfortunate that Pythogoras' disciples invented what is ascribed to him.
    What has this comment of yours got to do with whether or not it was 'awesome' of Pythagoras to set up an anti-democratic, mass murdering, mystical sect?

    That certainly wasn't Marmot's point. So if my grasp of logic is 'weak', then your grasp of reality is worryingly tenuous.

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    Coming from someone who thinks arguments can be false,
    Pedantry will succour you to the end, I suspect....

    whether or not it was 'awesome' of Pythagoras to set up an anti-democratic, mass murdering, mystical sect?
    Now that is a more interesting suggestion ! But fruitfull discussion is patently not on your crusaders agenda at the moment. So I'll drop it.
    "Dixi et salvavi animam meam" - quoted by Marx
    "Things rarely work out well if one aims at 'moderation'..." - Engels
    "By and by we heare newes of shipwrack in the same place, then we are too blame if we accept it not for a Rock." Sir Philip Sydney
    "The most to be hoped for by groups who claim to belong to the Marxist succession (...) is for them to serve as a hyphen between past and future....nothing can be held sacred – everything is called into question. Only after having been put through such a crucible could socialism conceivably re-emerge as a viable doctrine and plan of action." - Van Heijenoort

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    Gil:

    Pedantry will succour you to the end, I suspect....
    In fact, your tendency to prefer sloppy thought will do that.

    But fruitfull discussion is patently not on your crusaders agenda at the moment. So I'll drop it.
    You seem to think this is a genteel, academic game.

    Here is what I have said to LH on this:

    LH:

    But then, how can we pretend that we are undertaking an intellectual debate? After all, it may well be that you are right - but insulting others is by no means of any use in convincing anyone of that. (Exception made, of course, of those who believe insults are a demonstration of intellectual prowess. But those will use words you have decided are inherently sexist/racist/reactionary, so you will end requesting their removal from the board. N'est ce pas?)
    Me:

    No, this is not an 'intellectual debate'. It is an ideological aspect of the class war.

    As I have said here many times, I do not expect to persuade a single dialectically-distracted comrade, since they (you) hold on to this 'theory' for non-rational reasons, as a source of consolation for the long-term failure of dialectical Marxism. And, as with religious affectation, it will take radical social change to remove the need for consolation, and thus for the need for 'philosophy' (and religion -- this 'theory' is in fact 'religious' in form and content).

    So, I am not an idealist who thinks that this is simply a 'battle of ideas' -- it will take a mass workers' movement to provide the materialist counter-weight to this petty-bourgeois, idealist 'theory', and to remove the need for such consolation. I cannot do this. [In fact, I am only here to give you lot a hard time, and perhaps prevent a few younger comrades from catching this Hermetic virus.]

    Hence, you lot need the working class to save you from yourselves.
    So, I am not here to learn from you mystics or to try to communciate with you, but to give you lot a hard time.

    How many times do I have to tell you this?
    Last edited by Rosa Lichtenstein; 16th December 2008 at 20:50.

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    Yes I have noticed that quixotic delusion that in some way this is a forum in which an ideological aspect of the class war can be pursued.

    Your understanding of class struggle leaves a lot to be desired.


    Oh look, another windmill, Charge again brave, fearless knight !
    "Dixi et salvavi animam meam" - quoted by Marx
    "Things rarely work out well if one aims at 'moderation'..." - Engels
    "By and by we heare newes of shipwrack in the same place, then we are too blame if we accept it not for a Rock." Sir Philip Sydney
    "The most to be hoped for by groups who claim to belong to the Marxist succession (...) is for them to serve as a hyphen between past and future....nothing can be held sacred – everything is called into question. Only after having been put through such a crucible could socialism conceivably re-emerge as a viable doctrine and plan of action." - Van Heijenoort

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    Gil:

    Yes I have noticed that quixotic delusion that in some way this is a forum in which an ideological aspect of the class war can be pursued.
    I suppose you think that RevLeft and you exist in a bubble.

    Your understanding of class struggle leaves a lot to be desired.
    Far less than your grasp of reality.

    Oh look, another windmill, Charge again brave, fearless knight !
    Yes, you do look like an object that runs on hot air.

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    an object that runs on hot air.
    On top of everything else, you dont display an understanding of how windmills work.
    "Dixi et salvavi animam meam" - quoted by Marx
    "Things rarely work out well if one aims at 'moderation'..." - Engels
    "By and by we heare newes of shipwrack in the same place, then we are too blame if we accept it not for a Rock." Sir Philip Sydney
    "The most to be hoped for by groups who claim to belong to the Marxist succession (...) is for them to serve as a hyphen between past and future....nothing can be held sacred – everything is called into question. Only after having been put through such a crucible could socialism conceivably re-emerge as a viable doctrine and plan of action." - Van Heijenoort

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    Gil:

    On top of everything else, you dont display an understanding of how windmills work.
    Are you saying that in all of human history, a hot gust of wind has never moved the blades of a windmill?

    If so, it seems that you might just be a dogmatist here too, and not just in philosophy.

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    Oh look, another windmill, Charge again brave, fearless knight !
    "Dixi et salvavi animam meam" - quoted by Marx
    "Things rarely work out well if one aims at 'moderation'..." - Engels
    "By and by we heare newes of shipwrack in the same place, then we are too blame if we accept it not for a Rock." Sir Philip Sydney
    "The most to be hoped for by groups who claim to belong to the Marxist succession (...) is for them to serve as a hyphen between past and future....nothing can be held sacred – everything is called into question. Only after having been put through such a crucible could socialism conceivably re-emerge as a viable doctrine and plan of action." - Van Heijenoort

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    Gil:

    Oh look, another windmill, Charge again brave, fearless knight !
    So, that's another question you can't answer.

    Fair enough, but why is it always me who has to expose your ignorance?

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