Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 102

Thread: Communist League

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    1,207
    Organisation
    International Marxist Tendency
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally posted by Led Zeppelin+November 25, 2007 06:12 am--> (Led Zeppelin @ November 25, 2007 06:12 am)
    Rosa Lichtenstein
    @November 25, 2007 06:05 am
    What's the latest on this?
    Nothing that couldn't be predicted. The splitters are off forming a useless party that will die in irrelevance soon, and the original real communist league is doing the same as it always did; revolutionary activity. [/b]
    And the "real and original" CL will also die in irrelevance (and more splits are very likely) as well, given that it is just some cyber sect that lets just about anyone in. When it comes to the act of letting just about anyone in, it is the result of a watered down program and/or opportunism. The initial phase of building strong cadres requires a principled stance and an iron theoretical grounding. It can't be some mere "I hate capitalism club" that lets just about anyone in.

    Why people obsess over some cyber sect with no real world influence, no method, principled theoretical grounding, etc. is beyond me. I guess it shows that a lot of people here spend too much time on the internet and not enough time in real life.
    Raise your theoretical level here! * Wellred USA - Leftist buttons, pins, shirts, stickers, T-shirts, books, pamphlets Wellred Online Bookshop

    Insurrection must rely not upon conspiracy and not upon a party, but upon the advanced class. Insurrection must rely upon a revolutionary upsurge of the people.
    -V.I. Lenin

    Bureaucracy and social harmony are inversely proportional to each other.
    -Leon Trotsky

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    8,632
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    36

    Default

    Dude, your party has like 10 members there.

    Don't attack other parties if you are in the same position yourself.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    1,207
    Organisation
    International Marxist Tendency
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally posted by Led Zeppelin@November 25, 2007 08:14 am
    Dude, your party has like 10 members there.

    Don't attack other parties if you are in the same position yourself.
    Actually, we are bigger than that. I see you would prefer to believe Taaffe's lies instead of actually analyzing things. And we are involved in the real world, unlike the CL or whatever it is called now.

    And I like how you call us an insignificant group when we can clearly see that you guys are terrified of our growing influence. This is proven by the fact that the CWI has decided to publish a critical review of Reason in Revolt...12 years after the book was initially released (see http://www.socialistworld.net/eng/20...02sciena.html)! I also noticed that your group quoted from one of our books at the Socialist MN event at the University of Minnesota, and they were selling a pamphlet by the "senile old man," Ted Grant. Our influence and the strength of our ideas must be pretty good if even you guys are quoting from it and selling it. I will lay odds that Taaffe got scared when he started to see that his own comrades were enjoying that book.

    Why spend all that time and money on attacking us? I thought we were supposed to fade into oblivion. Instead, we are growing in size and influence. The CWI itself will end up fading into oblivion - its best elements will be won over and absorbed into the IMT (to top this off, some of your younger members don't even really think that there is much of a difference between the IMT and the CWI.) and the rest that remain afterward will become an insignificant sect. :P
    Raise your theoretical level here! * Wellred USA - Leftist buttons, pins, shirts, stickers, T-shirts, books, pamphlets Wellred Online Bookshop

    Insurrection must rely not upon conspiracy and not upon a party, but upon the advanced class. Insurrection must rely upon a revolutionary upsurge of the people.
    -V.I. Lenin

    Bureaucracy and social harmony are inversely proportional to each other.
    -Leon Trotsky

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    8,632
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    36

    Default

    Oh damn, you're right, you have 11 members.

    Apologies.

    And I know for a fact that the CL does real-life activities, I actually took part in some of them myself a while back in Detroit.

    Just because they're not active in your area doesn't mean they're not active.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Hague
    Posts
    1,366
    Organisation
    Spanish Socialist Worker's Party
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    I have to admit, the IMT attracts me more than the CL.
    "El ideal del P.S.O.E. es la completa emancipación de la clase trabajadora; Es decir, la abolición de todas las clases sociales y su declaración y conversión en una sola clase de trabajadores, dueños del fruto de su trabajo, libres, iguales, honrados e inteligentes." -Pablo Iglesias (founder of PSOE and UGT)

    "Quienes contraponen liberalismo y socialismo, o no conocen el primero o no saben los verdaderos objetivos del segundo." -Pablo Iglesias

    Art. 1.º España es una República democrática de trabajadores de toda clase, que se
    organiza en régimen de Libertad y de Justicia.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    8,632
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    36

    Default

    I'm not in the CL, I'm in the CWI. And I'm not sure why you posted which attracts you more. Who cares?

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Commie Under Nazi Thought
    Posts
    4,046
    Organisation
    Irish Republican Socialist Party
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Originally posted by Led Zeppelin@November 25, 2007 08:14 am
    Dude, your party has like 10 members there.

    Don't attack other parties if you are in the same position yourself.
    The IMT started outside the internet (indeed before the net existed) and has members all over the world. Members of the IRSP and its Youth Movement have attended several of the international conferences.
    '...the proletariat, not wishing to be treated as a canaille, needs its courage, its self-esteem, its pride, and its sense of independence more than its bread.' Marx
    ...★
    ★...★
    ........★....★
    ..........★..★ Starry Plough Magazine

    'From its origin the bourgeoisie was saddled with its antithesis: capitalists cannot exist without wage workers' - Engels, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific

    Stop Killer Coke

  8. #88
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Hague
    Posts
    1,366
    Organisation
    Spanish Socialist Worker's Party
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    I'm not in the CL, I'm in the CWI. And I'm not sure why you posted which attracts you more. Who cares?
    I wasn't really replying to you, more like making a general statement. My opinion is that the CL does not attract me in any way, whereas the IMT seems to be better organized and more succesful internationally.
    "El ideal del P.S.O.E. es la completa emancipación de la clase trabajadora; Es decir, la abolición de todas las clases sociales y su declaración y conversión en una sola clase de trabajadores, dueños del fruto de su trabajo, libres, iguales, honrados e inteligentes." -Pablo Iglesias (founder of PSOE and UGT)

    "Quienes contraponen liberalismo y socialismo, o no conocen el primero o no saben los verdaderos objetivos del segundo." -Pablo Iglesias

    Art. 1.º España es una República democrática de trabajadores de toda clase, que se
    organiza en régimen de Libertad y de Justicia.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    8,632
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    36

    Default

    Originally posted by PRC-UTE+November 25, 2007 09:10 pm--> (PRC-UTE @ November 25, 2007 09:10 pm)
    Led Zeppelin
    @November 25, 2007 08:14 am
    Dude, your party has like 10 members there.

    Don't attack other parties if you are in the same position yourself.
    The IMT started outside the internet (indeed before the net existed) and has members all over the world. Members of the IRSP and its Youth Movement have attended several of the international conferences. [/b]
    I was referring to the IMT section in the US, not as an organization in general (even though in general they are much smaller than the CWI as well).

    And their organization there is tiny compared to the CWI's, that doesn't mean that I'll follow suit and attack them with "you are irrelevant in the real world" type statements, which is nothing but sectarian idiocy.

    And the CL did not "start inside the internet", it was organization in Detroit which branched out through the means of the internet. Most organizations do that, it's called living in the modern world.

    My opinion is that the CL does not attract me in any way, whereas the IMT seems to be better organized and more succesful internationally.
    The CWI is better organized and more successful internationally, so do they attract you?

    What about the Chinese Communist Party? They are the best organized and most successful organization and they have the word "communist" in their name, does that mean that you support them?

    You don't support organizations based on their "success rate", you support them based on their politics and correctness in theory. Success in membership numbers does not equal correct theory (see the Socialist Party). Anyway you would support the CWI over the IMT based on that logic, given the fact that we are more "successful" than the IMT.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Hague
    Posts
    1,366
    Organisation
    Spanish Socialist Worker's Party
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    The CWI is better organized and more successful internationally, so do they attract you?

    What about the Chinese Communist Party? They are the best organized and most successful organization and they have the word "communist" in their name, does that mean that you support them?

    You don't support organizations based on their "success rate", you support them based on their politics and correctness in theory. Success in membership numbers does not equal correct theory (see the Socialist Party). Anyway you would support the CWI over the IMT based on that logic, given the fact that we are more "successful" than the IMT.
    Don't assume that my sole reason for joining an organization is based on their success rate. It's one of the reasons why I sympathize with the IMT. There are many more.

    The IMT in Venezuela is very active and doing a lot of great work, which is another reason why I support them (Corriente Marxista Revolucionaria), as well as in Spain. I feel closer to them than the local grouping of the CWI "Manifiesto" in Spain. This is just another reason, let me remind you.
    "El ideal del P.S.O.E. es la completa emancipación de la clase trabajadora; Es decir, la abolición de todas las clases sociales y su declaración y conversión en una sola clase de trabajadores, dueños del fruto de su trabajo, libres, iguales, honrados e inteligentes." -Pablo Iglesias (founder of PSOE and UGT)

    "Quienes contraponen liberalismo y socialismo, o no conocen el primero o no saben los verdaderos objetivos del segundo." -Pablo Iglesias

    Art. 1.º España es una República democrática de trabajadores de toda clase, que se
    organiza en régimen de Libertad y de Justicia.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    8,632
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    36

    Default

    Ok, I didn't know that, I just went by what you said. I'm not a mind-reader after all. :P

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,756
    Blog Entries
    7
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Originally posted by Axel1917@November 25, 2007 10:32 am
    And I like how you call us an insignificant group when we can clearly see that you guys are terrified of our growing influence. This is proven by the fact that the CWI has decided to publish a critical review of Reason in Revolt...12 years after the book was initially released (see http://www.socialistworld.net/eng/20...02sciena.html)! I also noticed that your group quoted from one of our books at the Socialist MN event at the University of Minnesota, and they were selling a pamphlet by the "senile old man," Ted Grant. Our influence and the strength of our ideas must be pretty good if even you guys are quoting from it and selling it. I will lay odds that Taaffe got scared when he started to see that his own comrades were enjoying that book.

    Why spend all that time and money on attacking us? I thought we were supposed to fade into oblivion. Instead, we are growing in size and influence. The CWI itself will end up fading into oblivion - its best elements will be won over and absorbed into the IMT (to top this off, some of your younger members don't even really think that there is much of a difference between the IMT and the CWI.) and the rest that remain afterward will become an insignificant sect. :P
    ?Huh?

    Why would we be terrified? It's obvious that the IMT can grow in influence. That's what happens to all excisting ideas, just like fascism, anarchism, reformism, ...

    Btw, this so called evidence is not "evidence" at all .
    “Where the worker is regulated bureaucratically from childhood onwards, where he believes in authority, in those set over him, the main thing is to teach him to walk by himself.” - Marx

    "It is illogical and incorrect to reduce everything to the economic [socialist] revolution, for the question is: how to eliminate [political] oppression? It cannot be eliminated without an economic revolution... But to limit ourselves to this is to lapse into absurd and wretched ... Economism." - Lenin

    "[During a revolution, bourgeois democratic] demands [of the working class] ... push so hard on the outer limits of capital's rule that they appear likewise as forms of transition to a proletarian dictatorship." - Luxemburg

    “Well, then go forward, Tower of Bebel! [August] Bebel is one of the most brilliant representatives of scientific international socialism. His writings, speeches and works make up a great tower, a strong arsenal, from which the working class should take their weapons. We cannot recommend it enough… And if the [International] deserves to be named Tower of Bebel... well, then we are lucky to have such a Tower of Bebel with us.” - Vooruit

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    16,778
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Axel:

    Why people obsess over some cyber sect with no real world influence, no method, principled theoretical grounding, etc. is beyond me. I guess it shows that a lot of people here spend too much time on the internet and not enough time in real life.
    Says someone who is keen to post on the internet, and who belongs to a split in yet another sect, himself... :P

    And anyone who wants to see Reason in Remission by Woods and Grant taken apart, just click on down:

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rosa.l/page%2...tical-Inanities

  14. #94
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    166
    Organisation
    Irish Republican Socialist Movement
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally posted by PRC-UTE+November 25, 2007 07:31 am--> (PRC-UTE @ November 25, 2007 07:31 am)
    Originally posted by Led Zeppelin@November 25, 2007 06:12 am
    Rosa Lichtenstein
    @November 25, 2007 06:05 am
    What's the latest on this?
    Nothing that couldn't be predicted. The splitters are off forming a useless party that will die in irrelevance soon, and the original real communist league is doing the same as it always did; revolutionary activity.
    So is there a Real Communist League and Provisional Communist League?

    This is starting to sound familiar... h34r: [/b]
    Was thinking the same think comrade.
    If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. - James Connolly

    The Irish Republican Socialist Movement exists to agitate, educate and organise within our class and to mobilise our fellow workers towards the objective of removing the Northern colonial and Southern neo-colonial statelets on this island, thus ending imperialism and capitalism, and preparing the basic structures for an Irish Workers' Republic.

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    16,778
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Anyone know what has happened since last year?

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Eisenach, Gotha, & Erfurt
    Posts
    14,026
    Organisation
    Sympathizer re.: Communistisch Platform, WPA, and CPGB (PCC)
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    79

    Default

    CL has been posting on this website (and so have I):

    http://www.deleonism.org/forum/viewt...?t=338&start=0
    "A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)

    "A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    In Partibus Infidelium
    Posts
    4,829
    Organisation
    Workers Party in America
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosa Lichtenstein View Post
    Anyone know what has happened since last year?
    As far as I can tell, the CWL has fallen off the map. No one has seen or heard from them since January.

    As for us, we just concluded a conference/expanded C.C. meeting that was quite productive. We've been neglecting the website, though, but that should be remedied soon.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    16,778
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I'm glad to hear you are still around!

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    5
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    BUMP.
    I may be reviving a dead message board, but as a former member of the CL, and the CWL, I've wanted to say something about the organization for around two years, and I've finally gotten my computer back, so I'M GONNA TALK.

    The Communist League of Comrade Miles didn't collapse because of their illegitimacy, neither did the Communist Workers League, who were in some way active through the middle of 2008. Despite what Miles said, the CWL didn't die because of wrong views, nor did they merge with a petty-bourgeois group, and they most certainly didn't collapse because Miles wasn't there to save them while simultaneously playing Second Life. The Communist Worker's League died off because of their incompetence. They couldn't get a newspaper running in one or two MONTHS let alone a weekly paper. They recruited people that knew very little about anything communistic, and the only members dedicated to the cause of communist revolution, it seemed, were about 4 to 7 people out of 43 overall members. Nothing was accomplished in meetings, calls to action were frequently ignored, and personal responsibility was more of an outcast than a Trotskyite in the Stalin Society. The group was too decentralized, there were too many semi-active and inactive members that would merely argue with me and a couple others about the different factions we belonged to. Without any form of unity, or any recorded accomplishments, I left the Communist Worker's League, and for a while, the Communist movement itself.

    In regard to the Detroit group; I really don't know what happened, except they seemed to go down around the same time as the CWL. I guess Miles had an active group, maybe more active and more competent thatn the CWL; but it doesn't help to only have four members in total. O_o; Both collapsed, due to petty squabbles, lack of leadership, overall incompetence, and a total lack of me. :P

    Glad to get all that off my chest.

    Yours truly,
    ~Comrade Vladimir

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    16,778
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    So, how is Miles's new group doing?

Similar Threads

  1. Communist League
    By Orange Juche in forum Learning
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 4th November 2007, 04:38
  2. communist league
    By Red Scare in forum Practice & Propaganda
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 10th September 2007, 07:49
  3. The Communist League
    By Cryotank Screams in forum Practice & Propaganda
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 26th September 2006, 03:15
  4. The Communist League
    By redstar2000 in forum Practice & Propaganda
    Replies: 153
    Last Post: 7th February 2006, 05:13

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •