Thread: UH professor calls on white men to quit their job

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  1. #1
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    Default UH professor calls on white men to quit their job

    Well this is an intriguing, thought provoking read. And judging by the response from the right-wing media, my guess is the professor achieved exactly what she set out to achieve.

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    I do have a few reservations about this article that I would not have dared to broach in any other setting seeing as how this is good discussion to be having and I wouldn't want to derail it in any way - but I will do so here.

    I have three pretty significant reservations about the article:

    1. It lumps white women in with white men in suggesting that more white women "is no solution". While I can agree that certain demographics are certainly more marginalized than white women, none of the other marginalized groups are nearly as numerous population-wise unless you count them all together, therefore while white women may not suffer to the degree that these other groups suffer, their suffering is on a larger scale. It's like comparing having cancer with being skinned alive. Yes, the latter is worse, but...is it really as big a problem? It's similar as to when people complain that white women are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action...yes, they are, but it's because they are a clear plurality among underprivileged groups.

    Additionally, such rhetoric like this has the potential to create in white women reactionaries and allies of white men...send them running back into the arms of a monster after we've tried so hard and made so much progress prying them away from that monster.

    2. There really are white males who had to overcome a lot and did in fact start from a disenfranchised position. I can't help but think of the resistance fighters who came back mauled after doing their part to destroy the Nazi threat. Or the white males who grew up in drug families, dropped out of school, and had to later fight claw tooth and nail for everything have. It doesn't really solve the problem nor does it reveal the root of the problem. That a capitalist society will always have it's *n-word*. While I believe these conversations are helpful, often times I get the impression that they're more about just passing the *n-word* buck onto another demographic rather than get to the root of why such thinking exists in the first place.

    3. Because we need white men. We need white men to do the right thing, because if they don't, things will not change. They, white males, are the ones with the guns; they, white males, are the ones with the government; they, white males, are the ones who (for the most part) impregnate white females and raise white children. If I were a fascist, I donate $10000 professor who wrote that article and encourage her to sing, sister, from the mountaintop. People these days have a hard enough time understanding nuance, and quotes such as, "Not to alarm you, but you are the problem. Your very presence.", seem to have real knack for converting workers into reactionaries faster than you can say, "Lumpenprole".

    Don't get me wrong. I understand the need for conversations like this one. It's an interesting idea that gets people talking about the issues and grabs peoples attention who learn about the issues. Here lately though, I wonder if some of this stuff is being taken a little too far. There is also a bit of an arrogant, self-righteous attitude inherent in some forms of identity politics. I can't help but wonder why so many grossly overprivleged, gated-community suburban California white people take such personal liberty to lecture and explain to poor, rural white trash workers how to be better people. A most perverted and sickening form of projection imaginable and I often find myself thinking how nice it would be to seize their assets and introduce them to the redemptive power of communal farm labour.
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    You can't lump all "rural" people in as poor or working class, this isn't 19th century Russia most rural American families moved their by choice, and usually during white flight to escape the cities after segregation ended. Most landowners aren't "barely scraping by" trying to turn a profit theyre usually very successful. If they weren't they wouldve sold the land along time ago. In fact most farms fail because they couldn't keep up with their property taxes because they simply refused to move because its "their land"

    The reason people blame or look down on "rural white trash" as you put it, is because theyre the ones voting against them, you can maybe say their voting against their own interests but they dont see it that way. Whether it's cuts to education, cuts for taxes on the wealthy or bills to outlaw homosexuality, its always white trash rural workers who voted for it, the more white trashier they are the more they swing far right as far as the voting booth. Who else should they blame? the wealthy for tricking them? Isn't that incredibly patronizing to these people? Are you trying to say they dont really want the things they vote for, theyre just being fooled? These gated community white people from California as you put it, also voted for Trump in the majority, so if a few of them are comparing their neighbors to old fashioned Klansmen to shame them for doing so, thats not the worst thing in the world.

    The article itself is purposefully written to be provocative obviously, the author even says so herself about the demand for white people to quit their jobs. I'm afraid you've fallen for that trick. If you want to talk about getting rid of traditional marriage its better, to start off with the demand "Abolish marriage" then maybe list all the reasons, rather then saying "hey try imagining a world without marriage for sec" in some polite inoffensive manner.

    If this kind of article "turns people into reactionaries" then so be it, if it did they weren't that far away from it anyway. It reminds me of when the same white people said they approved of giving black people rights but thought ending segregation was too much and told black people they were "scaring moderate white people away" thats an excuse and a pathetic one, if your message is true and just it shouldn't need to be sugar coated for the all white masses. It should be even more brutal, its should go beyond "whats reasonable" if anything the author didn't go far enough, she shouldn't have taken back her claim, she shouldve been even more radical in her proposal and called for the outlawing of white men from the workforce, and demanded they be reliant on the charity of women to feed themselves and strip them of their citizenship and take away their right to vote. None of it would get done either way, but atleast then it would've been an interesting read, this instead looks like the same old boring affirmative rights action arguments from the 1980's except they added the term "cisgender" to seem hip and cool to the young people, even though I wonder if the author is even aware homosexuals actually make more money on average, in America

    The idea that the "poor white working class" is being marginalized while blacks and women are given all the opportunities is a right wing American fascist myth. I don't know how many all white trailer parks you think there are in America but I guarantee there's not a lot. In fact most "rural work" is done by hispanics, most of them might work for wealthy white landowners, but theyre lucky to have citizenship, much less seeing some kind of benefit from harvard university or the tesla corporation hiring a handful of black faces every year under affirmative action. The median white families wealth is a good barometer of this


    http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/24/news...uality/?iid=EL

    This obviously explains why some whites are against socialism even if there were no black or hispanic people they would still favor a system that was prejudice towards the Italians or the Irish. If they're poor now they would rather be in a system that benefits them for no reason other then their skin, or their hair color or even their height, who wouldn't? Unless out of some moral or charitable obligation, even if they do live in a trailer park or make their money as a dirt poor field hand today, they believe a racist system that favors them will help them get rich one day.

    You really have to understand why these people live where they do. If they are so poor, why are they there and not in a city? There are plenty of poor whites in the cities who vote democrat. So whats wrong with them? Where does their towns money come from? Or where did it come from? Did it come from a military base? Is the whole county reliant on the military for a source of its income? Is the whole town devoted to a few wealthy landowners who can bankrupt the entire town on a whim? Is it a mining town, or reliant on a scarce resource thats being depleted by the day or maybe disappeared a long time ago? These questions are how you get over the superficiality of some of these liberal reformists. Declaring "we need the white man" is farthest thing from radical politics or ideas.

    Besides what's all this "help people find work" stuff anyway? We should talk about abolishing work.
  3. #3
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    But we do need white men. I don't like the idea of it any more than you do. But if every white man in America were fascist, then America too would be fascist. As whitey goes, so goes America. Now we can talk about why that is, or what can be done to change it, but it's undeniable. Every major social advancement in the last 300 years has come because enough white people were drawn to support it.

    This is nothing like people in the past saying that giving blacks full rights will scare away the moderates, or the whites that marched in the north during abolition claiming that Lincoln wanted to make slaves of white men. In this instance you're actually advocating, not equal rights, or even equal rights taken to the extreme, but to take away rights from others. Suggesting that white men be banned from the workforce (or go further and demand them liquidated in concentration camps), will not only turn white people AGAINST YOU, it will turn most minorities against you too. And that's a problem. All I'm suggesting is that you have to be careful.
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    But we do need white men.
    No we don't
    I don't like the idea of it any more than you do. But if every white man in America were fascist, then America too would be fascist.
    then let it be fascist

    As whitey goes, so goes America. Now we can talk about why that is, or what can be done to change it, but it's undeniable.
    let them go where they want

    Every major social advancement in the last 300 years has come because enough white people were drawn to support it.
    What the fuck is this?

    This is nothing like people in the past saying that giving blacks full rights will scare away the moderates, or the whites that marched in the north during abolition claiming that Lincoln wanted to make slaves of white men.
    How is it any different? People said Obama was going to make slaves out of white men?

    In this instance you're actually advocating, not equal rights, or even equal rights taken to the extreme, but to take away rights from others. Suggesting that white men be banned from the workforce (or go further and demand them liquidated in concentration camps), will not only turn white people AGAINST YOU, it will turn most minorities against you too. And that's a problem. All I'm suggesting is that you have to be careful.
    So what? Most of them already believe that anyway? Your not saying anything they dont already believe. I dont think it will help get you elected president, but neither will saying we should liquidate all brown people. Yet you still have thousand if not millions of white people saying just that everyday, can you name an equivalent to stormfront or the daily stormer or the KKK? WHat you are doing is a form of racism, that white people can advocate genocide everyday and go ignored, but if one black person writes a blog post sarcastically saying white men should voluntarily quit there jobs, then white people will get upset. this isn't even somebody important, its some assistant math professor from the university of Hawaii posting on a blog dedicated to underrepresented groups in mathematics. Where did you find this anyway?This is not the leader of some marxist political party or any political party. Yet even a leftist like you hears this demand in shock and horror and your mind goes to imaginary white genocide because you have been raised under institutionalized racism. The same belief that millions of white people had when slavery was outlawed, the same way white people did when segregation ended, the same way white people did when Obama was elected. Her request is one of equality, she is pointing out that white supremacists hire and promote other white people. It is itself a form of reverse "affirmative action", for every university or corporation that is forced to hire or accept a black student there's 100 more who hired or accepted an underqualified white person. And another 100 brown men who are prison.

    What would you suggest be done to overcome this? Also, if you think there should be one side arguing for white supremacy and another side arguing for equality and then on top of that, you say that these two groups should all meet somewhere in the middle, then what are you? What are we?
  5. #5
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    You're completely missing my point and the point of equality. In your mind, there has to be a yin for every yang. That if one side is doing one thing, then the only way to remedy that is for the other side to do the exact opposite. Like some perverse pendulum of equality. Tit for tat will not cause the buck to rest beautifully in the center. You're not scaring people into viewing reasonable solutions as desirable. What you're advocating is akin to trying to take over the proverbial plantation when what we should be doing is trying to burn it down. You're being very reactionary.

    And I resent being put in a position where it seems like I'm arguing in favor of, or defending the overprivledged class.

    The point is, these inequalities exist because of the capitalist system. Point blank, period, end of story. Racialism is a product of the capitalist system. And it is problematic when educators argue from a perspective of capitalistic equality because there can be none - there can only ever be the opposite. We can change the *n-word* but we can't change that there must always ever be an *n-word*. Reactionaries on both sides do not cancel each other out - nationalism of the oppressed is a fallacy. It actually plays right into the hands of the fascists by providing the most reactionary elements of society a headline. Perceived vindication for their despicable views and emboldening them further. These tactics don't work, they lead to fascism. Real fascism. "Then let it be fascist" is not an acceptable answer.

    Are you trying to take over the plantation or burn it down?
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  7. #6
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    You're completely missing my point and the point of equality. In your mind, there has to be a yin for every yang. That if one side is doing one thing, then the only way to remedy that is for the other side to do the exact opposite. Like some perverse pendulum of equality. Tit for tat will not cause the buck to rest beautifully in the center. You're not scaring people into viewing reasonable solutions as desirable. What you're advocating is akin to trying to take over the proverbial plantation when what we should be doing is trying to burn it down. You're being very reactionary.

    And I resent being put in a position where it seems like I'm arguing in favor of, or defending the overprivledged class.

    The point is, these inequalities exist because of the capitalist system. Point blank, period, end of story. Racialism is a product of the capitalist system. And it is problematic when educators argue from a perspective of capitalistic equality because there can be none - there can only ever be the opposite. We can change the *n-word* but we can't change that there must always ever be an *n-word*. Reactionaries on both sides do not cancel each other out - nationalism of the oppressed is a fallacy. It actually plays right into the hands of the fascists by providing the most reactionary elements of society a headline. Perceived vindication for their despicable views and emboldening them further. These tactics don't work, they lead to fascism. Real fascism. "Then let it be fascist" is not an acceptable answer.

    Are you trying to take over the plantation or burn it down?
    Honestly, if all it takes for america to become a fascist country is an article by some random person, then its going to be a fascist country. She's really just arguing for affirmative action, so are you saying affirmative action will lead to all white people becoming nazis? Literally every single advancement against racism has been met with this argument, that it will cause white people to be turned off to "our cause". Don't you think simply calling yourself a marxist would turn some people off as well? I dont think you can name a single socialist movement, or progressive policy that hasn't been met with this argument, try and name one. It's not even a claim it's a threat and is it itself a fascist argument. You yourself are not free of racism, nobody is. Racism is not the product of capitalist system that ridiculous, neither is homophobia or religious bigotry, they were not invented the day capitalism started. It may be encouraged, but so is having fashion sense, or eating junk food.

    Now maybe if she was saying she is the leader of some marxist party and that marxists believe that whites are an inferior race or something and need to be liquidated to improve the stock market, then yeah sure you can send her a polite email to correct her

    but lets talk about a hypothetical, lets say this girl was saying we need to kill all white people. Why is she not allowed to write this? if thats what she feels than what's wrong with her expressing this? Should she keep her mouth shut while white supremacists say she needs to be killed daily? Don't you think that she will be criticized enough especially by right wingers? Why pile on? Are you under the delusion that such a plan may become successful one day?

    Look I know it can be frustrating when right wingers show her story and then use her as some kind strawman attack against you. But these people will always exist. They'll say you want to murder 100 million people simply because your a communist. They'll say you want murder white people because you joined a BLM protest. Which if you watch FOX news they'll happily say to you its the exact same thing as the KKK its just a black version. Here's a fun one try finding an unarmed white person who was murdered by police who was doing nothing wrong. I guarantee you that every reactionary will automatically tell you that not only does it happen all the time, but it happens to white people more. Look it up yourself you wont be able to find one, you can't even find a cop who was imprisoned for shooting an unarmed white person, because it just doesn't happen. Fascists will climb over a mountain to pick up a crumb if it proves their fears were correct. You cannot take that to mean that you should run around vacuuming up crumbs

    I think you find this proposal offensive because you are white. You're taking this personally just as a Christian or even a former Christian would if a militant atheist suggested we burn down all the churches. Or a man would if he hears a woman say all men should be chemically castrated and their sperm used for artificial insemination. Both are radical proposals, that might hurt your chances at winning an election, but are both as unlikely to happen or be said by anyone in power. But I assure you nobody wants to burn down your mothers church, nobody wants to castrate you, nobody wants you to quit your job..... unless your not white and in that case there's literally millions of people who want all 3 to happen to you.

    Again I have never heard of this woman, or even this blog that she posted it on, I can only find this covered on 4 websites, all right wing "news" websites one of them being Breitbart.... again its a crumb

    You should be upset that it's not more radical, that this all the armies of right wing news editors combing the globe can find.
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    So this is funny I was just looking through breitbart to see how long it took me to find a single article that didn't go along with their narrative. When I came across this http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...t-kansas-city/

    It's an article about mass layoffs from Kellogs, and I thought thats weird, why would they cover that? there's a republican in office, there site is littered with articles about how great the economy is doing now, and how its all trumps doing. So I thought maybe they are connecting it to Obama, maybe it's some kind of environmental or safety regulation that is the main cause of it. Maybe some democrat governor or mayor is to blame? Then i thought unions it has to be the unions, its always the unions fault. I was so curious reading down trying to figure why on earth they would dare report on job losses when the orange fuhrer is in office then I found it

    The company’s financial struggles coincided with Kellogg’s decision last year to cease advertising with Breitbart News, whose 45,000,000 readers, Kellogg’s said, are not “aligned with our values as a company.”

    While Kellogg’s decision to cease advertising had no impact on Breitbart.com’s revenue, it did represent an escalation in the war by leftist companies like Target and Allstate against conservative customers whose values propelled President Donald Trump into the White House.
    They cut funding to Brietbart those devils! LOL I couldn't stop laughing Im still laughing even as I am writing this. Well atleast I now know why they covered this story. If it doesn't fit the narrative it doesn't exist.
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    The fact that a thread like this exists shows the utter imbecility part of the Left suffers from.

    Originally Posted by GLF
    But we do need white men.



    No we don't
    Yeah, I suppose Marx, Engels, Lenin and really any and every major Marxist figure in the 19th-20th century is part of an imaginary tribe. This is precisely why I said that "White privilege theory" is utter shit and violently anti-Marxist. This proves it. The fact that a professor who is absolutely nothing more than a "decolonialism" moron that sees Capitalism as the END OF HISTORY.
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    Lets not confuse twitter politics and brietbart trash tabloids with actual white privilege theory. Scratch an anti-communist, find a racist.

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    Who is discussing newspapers and the mainstream media here, how is that image relevant to this thread really?

    What has correctly been pointed out by GLF here, is that unity of ethnicities on a class basis - not division on basis of artificial differences imposed to benefit the oppressors - of those that have to gain by fighting the capitalists, is the answer to the ills of the world. Because class society, capitalism being only it's latest incarnation, is the root of oppression.

    "Then let it be fascist" isn't very helpful neither to minorities nor the white workers - not anyone really. Whites in the US constitute a huge part of the working class in and need to be won over. Neither are most of them fascists, including those that voted for Trump. Many of them were misled due to being uneducated on politics, and can be won over especially now that it will increasingly become apparent Trump was lying about helping the white workers.

    Others didn't vote for anyone at all in the elections, and are even more open for our ideas. We need the core of the working class of all ethnicities, faiths and orientations behind socialist ideas, and now is the time to do it, in the US and elsewhere. Otherwise we can just give up, and I'm not going to do that - and I hope not you either.

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