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Thread: Hi my friends, let's all unite and create 1 party for all leftists in each country

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgin Molotov Cocktail View Post
    Wait, the same SPD that supported the first world war, helped smash the nascent German revolution afterward, and, reconstituted in the FRG helped smash the radical left of the 60s? Fucking gross - the absolute worst social-democratic labour-aristocratic shitstain in Europe this side of British Labour.
    I stand by my earlier statement.
    Was that the same party?... wow, never knew...
    "It is necessary for Communists to enter into contradiction with the consciousness of the masses. . . The problem with these Transitional programs and transitional demands, which don't enter into any contradiction with the consciousness of the masses, or try to trick the masses into entering into the class struggle, create soviets - [is that] it winds up as common-or-garden reformism or economism." - Mike Macnair, on the necessity of the Minimum and Maximum communist party Program.

    "You're lucky. You have a faith. Even if it's only Karl Marx" - Richard Burton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgin Molotov Cocktail View Post
    Wait, the same SPD that supported the first world war, helped smash the nascent German revolution afterward, and, reconstituted in the FRG helped smash the radical left of the 60s? Fucking gross - the absolute worst social-democratic labour-aristocratic shitstain in Europe this side of British Labour.
    I stand by my earlier statement.
    Nah. I was talking about the SPD which was the party of Marx's colleagues and disciples, like Friedrich Engels, Wilhelm Liebknecht, August Bebel, Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht, Franz Mehring, Clara Zetkin, Paul Levi, Ernst Meyer, Karl Kautsky before he reneged his revolutionary Marxism, Julian Marchlewski, etc, etc. Just because power in the SPD was usurped by right-wingers and opportunists and traitors, that doesn't discredit its previous history; in 1903, the Mensheviks were Marxist revolutionaries engaging in illegal underground work, in 1917, they were traitors whose leaders took part in the bourgeois Provisional Government as Ministers; in January 1919, the KPD were revolutionary Marxists led by Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg, in 1931 they were Stalinists subservient to the Soviet ruling class.

    The SPD's disgrace in 1914 doesn't invalidate its history.

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    ^^I was having this same debate in that Trotsky betraying the revolution thread that Hetz made, the one with all those silly Maoists in it. I forget who it was I was debating but they basically said the same thing and lumped the entire SPD and its history as one complete failure.

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    ^I wonder how our Maoist friends would have reacted if you dismissed Mao, the Chinese Civil War, the Chinese Communist Party of the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, etc, the Cultural Revolution and all that because the heirs of Mao and the Chinese "Communists" of his generation are Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin, Hu Jintao, Wu Bangguo, Xi Jinping, Li Keqiang and so on. They would not have taken it kindly, I expect.

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    Haha, yea. Maoism is shit regardless though. Probably the worst vulgarization of Marxism ever - I'm not an expert on it or the history of the Chinese Revolution and civil war but all its tenets are a complete revision of what Marx and Engels wrote. Maoists claim it builds off them but I just don't see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxaveli View Post
    Haha, yea. Maoism is shit regardless though. Probably the worst vulgarization of Marxism ever - I'm not an expert on it or the history of the Chinese Revolution and civil war but all its tenets are a complete revision of what Marx and Engels wrote. Maoists claim it builds off them but I just don't see it.
    RevLeft's currently most prominent Maoist, ind_com, is quite open about how Maoists discard the Marxist conception of what constitutes a social class and substitute it with revisionist gibberish, yet he calls me a "liberal" for guess what? - sticking to Marx's definition of social class and dismissing Maoist revisionism, so I must agree with you.

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    ind_com! Thats who I was arguing with, LOL....guy is a complete nut job. Much of the CPUSA is filled with jokesters like him, a party that votes Democrat. And he has the nerve to call us "liberals"? LOL.

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