Response to far-right.

[MuscularTophFan]

There are no white, black, Asian nations. There are whites that live in South Africa just like how there are blacks that live in America. The world isn't some place where you can just pick and choose where certain groups of people live. This isn't 1945 anymore. Golbalization and immigration is going to eradicate white, black, and Asian "races." Eventually the entire world is going to be multiracial brownish kinda color. No reason to fight this.

[Eagle_Syr]

I think race is an informative detail in a strictly scientific sense, but should not be socially relevant.

And informative is not some abstract concept that we can debate. Something is informative if it reduces your uncertainty about a particular thing. Race is therefore informative. Classifying somebody as Asian, for example, reduces your uncertainty as to the color of their hair, skin; shape of the eyes; geographical origin.

But it is important to remember that this is a reduction in uncertainty, and only that. It does not eliminate uncertainty.

[Revolution starts with U]

I think race is an informative detail in a strictly scientific sense, but should not be socially relevant.

And informative is not some abstract concept that we can debate. Something is informative if it reduces your uncertainty about a particular thing. Race is therefore informative. Classifying somebody as Asian, for example, reduces your uncertainty as to the color of their hair, skin; shape of the eyes; geographical origin.

But it is important to remember that this is a reduction in uncertainty, and only that. It does not eliminate uncertainty.

I'm pretty sure many whites live in Asia...

Also, if I classify someone as European does that reduce your uncertainty about their etc? Are there no browns/blacks/etc in europe?

[Eagle_Syr]

I'm pretty sure many whites live in Asia...

Correct. But Asian does not refer to white people. It is exclusively used to mean people of the Far East.

Hence why Near Eastern people are not Asian

I'm talking about race

Also, if I classify someone as European does that reduce your uncertainty about their etc? Are there no browns/blacks/etc in europe?

European is not a race. White is a race.

[Revolution starts with U]

Correct. But Asian does not refer to white people. It is exclusively used to mean people of the Far East.

Hence why Near Eastern people are not Asian

I'm talking about race



European is not a race. White is a race.

Why is "asian" a race and "european" not?
Arabs aren't "asian?"
I don't think these terms make all that much sense...

[Eagle_Syr]

Why is "asian" a race and "european" not?

It's honestly not that complicated. When people use the term "Asian" they don't mean "somebody from Asia", they are using it racially to mean people of the Far East specifically. We could call it anything, honestly. The name doesn't matter as much as the fact that that race of people has characteristics in common which makes their label informative.

When you say "European", it just means people from Europe. Indigenous Europeans are white, which is a race.

Arabs aren't "asian?"

Arabs are asian, not Asian.

Although, many people don't include the Middle East as a part of the continent of Asia (I tend to support this since we have less in common with the rest of Asia than we do with Africa, the alternative).

Arabs are Semitic, Eastern Mediterranean and usually classified as White along with Jews

I don't think these terms make all that much sense...

Maybe not, but race is scientifically informative.

[Revolution starts with U]

It's honestly not that complicated. When people use the term "Asian" they don't mean "somebody from Asia", they are using it racially to mean people of the Far East specifically. We could call it anything, honestly. The name doesn't matter as much as the fact that that race of people has characteristics in common which makes their label informative.

I'm saying it is that complicated when some "white" dude comes up and says he's Asian.

When you say "European", it just means people from Europe. Indigenous Europeans are white, which is a race.

Indigenous Spanish, Italian, and Greeks don't really look all that white to me. In fact, all that I can see that separates them from other near-eastern people is culture.

Arabs are asian, not Asian.

This is getting more complicated by the second

Although, many people don't include the Middle East as a part of the continent of Asia (I tend to support this since we have less in common with the rest of Asia than we do with Africa, the alternative).

Arabs are Semitic, Eastern Mediterranean and usually classified as White along with Jews

Which has only been true for maybe 100 years tops. Hell, at one point even Irish people weren't considered white.

Maybe not, but race is scientifically informative.

I really don't think it is.

[Eagle_Syr]

I'm saying it is that complicated when some "white" dude comes up and says he's Asian.

Then he must mean he comes from the continent of Asia.

Indigenous Spanish, Italian, and Greeks don't really look all that white to me.

Those are ethnic groups. They are all white.

This is getting more complicated by the second

It's incredibly simple.

The people of the Far East (the Chinese, for example) are classified racially as Asian. The term may be confusing you. If you are Asian, you belong to this race, this group of people. But there are other races in the continent of Asia, anybody who comes from Asia is asian.

I really don't think it is.

This isn't a matter of opinion.

[Revolution starts with U]

Then he must mean he comes from the continent of Asia.

So how am I supposed to know if someone is capitalizing their words in direct conversation? What am I supposed to do if they forget to capitalize a word in text?

Those are ethnic groups. They are all white.

You're saying Italians physically resemble Norwegians more than they do, say Syrians?

It's incredibly simple.

It doesn't seem so. I'm not sure A/a really simplifies things all that much.

The people of the Far East (the Chinese, for example) are classified racially as Asian. The term may be confusing you. If you are Asian, you belong to this race, this group of people. But there are other races in the continent of Asia, anybody who comes from Asia is asian.

What race are Indian people?

This isn't a matter of opinion.

It's not a matter of science either, that's for sure.

[Eagle_Syr]

So how am I supposed to know if someone is capitalizing their words in direct conversation? What am I supposed to do if they forget to capitalize a word in text?

Usually people say "I'm Asian" when referring to their race. Otherwise people refer to their country of origin, not continent (and especially not the Asian continent). Regardless, this is just a conversational issue.

You're saying Italians physically resemble Norwegians more than they do, say Syrians?

On the contrary, I bet they resemble other Mediterranean peoples more than Norwegians.

Syrians are white, as well. Semitic white.

What race are Indian people?

Most are classified as Asian by the census.

It's not a matter of science either, that's for sure.

It absolutely is. Race is informative.

The statement "Sally is black" is informative. It reduces uncertainty as to Sally's skin color, geographical origin, ancestry, and even athletic ability. It is therefore considered an informative statement.

[Revolution starts with U]

Usually people say "I'm Asian" when referring to their race. Otherwise people refer to their country of origin, not continent (and especially not the Asian continent). Regardless, this is just a conversational issue.

I think that's the whole point; race is a conversational issue, and a pretty poor one at that. If I'm of mixed "race" but resemble a "black" am I black?

On the contrary, I bet they resemble other Mediterranean peoples more than Norwegians.

Syrians are white, as well. Semitic white.

Since when are Syrians white? This must be a pretty recent development. Might want to inform all those white nationalists of this...

Most are classified as Asian by the census.

Ya, and according to the census most Americans are German.

It absolutely is. Race is informative.

The statement "Sally is black" is informative. It reduces uncertainty as to Sally's skin color, geographical origin, ancestry, and even athletic ability. It is therefore considered an informative statement.

Is Tiger woods black or Asian (almost forgot to capitalize that... whoo boy what a confusion that may have caused)?
Athletic ability? Really? Do you have any evidence for that, or just latent stereotypes?

[Revolution starts with U]

More importantly, how does the classification of race help us understand humanity more scientifically? Skin color, sure... tho this is circular reasoning. "Sally has black skin therefore Sally's race is black." It doesn't matter if Sally is the son of a white and black person, and the black parent is itself of mixed "race."

[Eagle_Syr]

I think that's the whole point; race is a conversational issue, and a pretty poor one at that. If I'm of mixed "race" but resemble a "black" am I black?

You're mixed

Since when are Syrians white? This must be a pretty recent development. Might want to inform all those white nationalists of this...

Syrians are not European white, but they are white on the census and have generally been considered white in contrast with the people further to the East.

Persians are also white.

Ya, and according to the census most Americans are German.

Okay

Is Tiger woods black or Asian (almost forgot to capitalize that... whoo boy what a confusion that may have caused)?

He's mixed

Athletic ability? Really? Do you have any evidence for that, or just latent stereotypes?

All of this is taken from Richard Dawkin's The Ancestors' Tale, specifically the chapter about the grasshopper

[feather canyons]

Most of the "White" countries were never really "White" to begin with. They were stolen. If Europeans want to keep Europe white, they need to fix their social systems.