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Thread: How do immigrant feel about the Left in the US?

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    Default How do immigrant feel about the Left in the US?

    I have been wondering how immigrants feel about the Left in the US, i am wondering if: A. they feel like we are using them, B, they are not left friendly, C. other factors in your opinion?

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    The problem with this question is that immigrants are varied. A migrant worker compared to a petite-bourgeois immigrant will feel differently. We will always stand in solidarity with migrant workers and one good example of migrant workers participating with the left is the Great American Boycott. Do they feel that we are using them? I can't answer that question, but we are not trying to mislead them into voting for our political party.

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    I have friends from Bosnia and they all feel pretty negatively about socialism because of the whole Tito thing. The Mexican immigrants I know are either disillusioned with politics, don't care, or are democrats. I know one Russian kid who is a far-right military-fetishist. He feels positively about Lenin for purely patriotic reasons.
    As a whole the working class immigrant youths I know are democrats or indifferent/disillusioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewLeft View Post
    The problem with this question is that immigrants are varied. A migrant worker compared to a petite-bourgeois immigrant will feel differently.
    Interesting, I originally interpreted this as implying undocumented immigrants, but this brings to light some other important things.

    Quote Originally Posted by genosserot View Post
    I have been wondering how immigrants feel about the Left in the US, i am wondering if: A. they feel like we are using them, B, they are not left friendly, C. other factors in your opinion?
    As NewLeft pointed out immigrants are a varied bunch.

    But let me say first perhaps the most important thing. The majority of immigrants are not really aware of the presence of the left. I am the son of a previously undocumented immigrant, and I know quite a few immigrants documented and undocumented. I have never heard of them complain that the left uses them, or really speak about the left very much at all (the case could be different in Europe). By this I mean the relatively relevant left or ideas associated with the relevant left, at least not anymore than the general population (ie: workers struggles, etc.).

    Some immigrants, however, very much support at least some kind of socialism based on their background. I've met a few Chinese immigrants who came to my highschool who strongly supported Maoism (not its current portrayal in the Chinese media) but some kind of restoration against the neoliberal tide. Likewise the only Russian immigrant to my highschool was a pretty big fan of the Soviet Union.

    The largest chunks of immigrants that I know are Asians and Latin Americans. Most Latin Americans have a strong distaste for American imperialism or at least what they abstractly think that it is, and are generally against US intervention in Latin American politics. On the other hand, my neighbor (an undocumented Bolivian) became a strong supporter of the Iraq War after his son left to fight. This however, seems like a natural rationalization. Btw, no one should hate on this guy because he was a really nice guy and about as prole as it got. I lost touch with him a few years back after he lost his job and had to move. I've met a few reactionary Latin Americans, many of whom were wealthy or had wealthy family in the old country. Although I will say this, I have never met a reactionary undocumented immigrant (from any ethnicity).

    Most ethnicities aren't too different in the regards stated up top. They take a pretty decent anti-imperialist line, with Arabs/Muslims also taking up the pro-Palestine line. I think that the greatest differences among immigrants really arise from class and legal status. I know quite a few undocumented Asians who are pretty radical not from a they can spit dialectics, but from a they will compose the radical proletariat stance. This can be contrasted with middle class documented Arabs/Asians who are pro Arizona's anti-immigrant laws and middle class Latinos who defend police brutality against blacks.

    The issue of undocumented immigrants is interesting. I presume that when you ask if they think that the left is using them, you are asking whether or not it bothers them that there are white and non-immigrant activists at immigration rights rallies/ attempting to organize them. I would say that here you are way off. Most immigrants strongly appreciate it, and are even attracted to our message when we are not immediately speaking about immigration. I think that maybe I've seen the better side of this because when I was with the PSL immigrants generally responded well. This may have been because my branch was heavily latin@, so generally a lot of immigrants spoke out to us.
    “How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?” Charles Bukowski, Factotum
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    As mentioned before, immigrants are a varied bunch and their relation to the left is diverse.

    Venezuelan immigrants, particularly older adults, tend to be anti-left (sometimes to such an extent that they even oppose US liberals). Younger ones, which I have experience with, are more varied but tend not to support the socialist left however may be more 'understanding' than their older cohorts (i.e. they know why Chavez is president and they know Chavez's policies may have helped the poor in Venezuela). It's kinda similar with Cubans, although Cubans have more out and out supporters of Republicans.

    From what I can percieve from the CIW, a migrant workers union in Florida, it's not that the left is using them but more that they're using the "left" (in a broad sense) to put pressure on corporations so they can gain better labor conditions and pay. So when it comes to "using them" they don't care because in reality to them they benefit from your presence as long as you support policies they support (like the example Ocean Seal mentioned about immigration rallies and white activists).

    Hispanic immigrants do not feel that they're being used, perhaps because they don't lend themselves easily to be used. The Republicans have made attempts to pander to Hispanics, all which have failed because they're more focus on their policies which are disagreeable to them. Right now media commntators are talking about using Marco Rubio or even Luis Fortuno as a VP candidate; but neither one will really help much in getting the Latino vote. There's also the issue that the GOP is viewing "hispanics" as some sort of uniform "brown race" when that's not the case; Latinos are made up of many ethnicities, some which don't get along perfectly with each other. I guess this can be seen as an example of being used in a way to go against their interests and they're not buying it and in fact probably feel insulted/discriminated.

    In Sum
    A: No, not really.
    B: Depends on ethnicity and class factors
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    Ironically, I know a polish nazi. I told him I have a problem with him, but he didn't seem to understand.

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    My grandfather is friends with quite a few conservative Cuban immigrants.

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    Jorge Ramos and Noticiero Univision have great strong mind and political manipulating impact on the millions and millions of spanish speaking immigrants who live in USA. And most of them usually vote for blue dog zionist corporate Democrats politicians and conservative zionist corporate republicans politicians in most presidential and mid-term elections. In this picture he is interviewing Ingrid Betancourt, that ultra-right wing bourgeoise-liberal elitist girl who was kidnapped by the revolutionary FARC rebels. Jim Morrison said that people are ruled by TV !!


    Hi there, well most immigrants who move to USA are poor people escaping extreme poverty and hunger in their original countries. And I think that most poor immigrants feel almost the same way politically like most poor americans. Both poor immigrants and poor americans have almost the same behaviour patterns, same lifestyles. And both might be very mind manipulated by the main 7 capitalist TV stations of USA (CNN, FOX news, ABC, CBS, NBC, Univision and Telemundo).

    The great majority of the 25 million spanish people who live in America are mind-controlled by their neoliberal capitalist way of life in their native countries, the catholic and protestant evangelical churches, and about the same of life of americans, which is a life and a society of 3 classes (upper classes, middle class and lower class). In most countries classes are almost the same as USA. And the behaviour and lifestyles are almost the same as USA.

    So having said all this. Both poor immigrants and poor americans live a life of work, domestic chores and they have very little time for political information, philosophy and knowledge like most people on this website and most members of progressive alternative news sites.

    So I think that poor immigrants and even many middle class immigrants like the anti-chavez and anti-castro citizens of USA, are too bourgeoise and it doesn't matter if they are poor. Their bourgeoise-catholic family-traditional mentality and all that is about the same wether they are middle class or poor working class. They are very mind-manipulated by Univision and Telemundo.

    And many are mind-controlled by Jorge Ramos, Patricia Janiot of CNN, Juan Carlos Lopez and Cala of CNN (Who is a hardcore anti-chavez CNN newscaster)


    .


    Quote Originally Posted by genosserot View Post
    I have been wondering how immigrants feel about the Left in the US, i am wondering if: A. they feel like we are using them, B, they are not left friendly, C. other factors in your opinion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean Seal View Post
    Although I will say this, I have never met a reactionary undocumented immigrant (from any ethnicity).
    Believe me, there are plenty of them out there. Here in the US alone, there's plenty undocumented immigrants who are very reactionary in the ideals and areas where Leftists stand. I've met plenty of them in my time at protests and even just rallies (big or small) for immigration matters here in the US.

    One example I have, is while at a Tea Party rally speaking against illegal immigration, in the Tea Party group speaking against us who were there to counter their claims and everything, there was a smaller group of about five or six fellow Mexicans, standing with them, telling all the supposed "illegals" to leave and go back to Mexico because they were "polluting what the legal Mexicans," were trying to achieve. Which I can only guess was, to get in the good graces of the Tea Party, and hope they didn't see to try and deport them back, even though they probably had come to the US illegally themselves at one point. Although apparently one of the Mexicans on the Tea Party side, was definitely undocumented according to a couple on our side of the line who said they knew him.

    This kind of thing has been reported on in the past before, so there are most definitely reactionary undocumented workers.
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    We shouldn't hold up 'illegal' immigrants to a higher standard and expect them to be anymore progressive than anyone else, reactionary ideology is the dominant ideology. Illegal immigrants who sympathize with the Tea party are suffering from traumatic bonding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewLeft View Post
    We shouldn't hold up 'illegal' immigrants to a higher standard and expect them to be anymore progressive than anyone else, reactionary ideology is the dominant ideology. Illegal immigrants who sympathize with the Tea party are suffering from traumatic bonding.
    or opportunism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewLeft View Post
    We shouldn't hold up 'illegal' immigrants to a higher standard and expect them to be anymore progressive than anyone else, reactionary ideology is the dominant ideology. Illegal immigrants who sympathize with the Tea party are suffering from traumatic bonding.
    There is a tendency common in many people to want to "raise the draw bridge" once exceptions have been carved out for them personally. Immigrants in America who benefited from the amnesty in the 1980s found themselves dealing with the same sorts of issues faced by the nativist crowd - employers eager to use worker's immigration status as leverage of division. This made some somewhat less inclined to support the cause of immigration rights because they themselves were no longer really affected by it. Indeed, most tea party members themselves are only a handful of generations removed from immigrants, yet have contempt for immigrants for immigrants. Go figure.
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