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Thread: Algeria: Shit's Getting Real

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    Default Algeria: Shit's Getting Real

    As many of us may know, in Algeria the PT or the Workers Party is running against the FNL, and according to even french poll takers are likely to gain a majority in Parliament.

    This would mean that the "Popular Committees" which are pretty much community and workers councils will have a conflict with the Bourgeois in the upcoming Constitituitent Assembly as to where the country is going. What does this mean for us as Socialists?

    If the PT gains power of the government they will without a single doubt Nationalise the Oil and Natural Gas reserves in Algeria, which are huge. This will mean that the Imperialists will try to invade if such a time comes, and we as 1st World Communists need to hold a stance defying Imperialist intervention, and unconditionally supporting the Workers Party against the FLN and Islamists who are in the pockets of the Imperialists.

    Here's an Article from the 4th International about the events unfolding. The leadership of the PT are more or less blatant Trotskyists. The bourgeois press even labels them as such. Algeria is in a Revolutionary situation, and we need to discuss what this means.

    http://www2.socialistorganizer.org/i...d=477&Itemid=1
    ^There's an article from my group. A few people I know have even headed to Algeria to help out.
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    Sounds a bit like Greece.
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    trotskyists: on the road to becoming managers of the capitalist state
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    I don't know anything about the situation in Algeria and so I will refrain from saying much. As long as things get better for the workers there, good.
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    Permanent revolution in Maghreb.

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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    It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Also we will get to see if Trotskyists really behave different from Stalinists when they are the ones in power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syd Barrett View Post
    As many of us may know, in Algeria the PT or the Workers Party is running against the FNL, and according to even french poll takers are likely to gain a majority in Parliament.

    This would mean that the "Popular Committees" which are pretty much community and workers councils will have a conflict with the Bourgeois in the upcoming Constitituitent Assembly as to where the country is going. What does this mean for us as Socialists?

    If the PT gains power of the government they will without a single doubt Nationalise the Oil and Natural Gas reserves in Algeria, which are huge. This will mean that the Imperialists will try to invade if such a time comes, and we as 1st World Communists need to hold a stance defying Imperialist intervention, and unconditionally supporting the Workers Party against the FLN and Islamists who are in the pockets of the Imperialists.

    Here's an Article from the 4th International about the events unfolding. The leadership of the PT are more or less blatant Trotskyists. The bourgeois press even labels them as such. Algeria is in a Revolutionary situation, and we need to discuss what this means.

    http://www2.socialistorganizer.org/i...d=477&Itemid=1
    ^There's an article from my group. A few people I know have even headed to Algeria to help out.
    Good luck to the lambertists I suppose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syd Barrett View Post
    As many of us may know, in Algeria the PT or the Workers Party is running against the FNL, and according to even french poll takers are likely to gain a majority in Parliament.

    This would mean that the "Popular Committees" which are pretty much community and workers councils will have a conflict with the Bourgeois in the upcoming Constitituitent Assembly as to where the country is going. What does this mean for us as Socialists?

    If the PT gains power of the government they will without a single doubt Nationalise the Oil and Natural Gas reserves in Algeria, which are huge. This will mean that the Imperialists will try to invade if such a time comes, and we as 1st World Communists need to hold a stance defying Imperialist intervention, and unconditionally supporting the Workers Party against the FLN and Islamists who are in the pockets of the Imperialists.

    Here's an Article from the 4th International about the events unfolding. The leadership of the PT are more or less blatant Trotskyists. The bourgeois press even labels them as such. Algeria is in a Revolutionary situation, and we need to discuss what this means.

    http://www2.socialistorganizer.org/i...d=477&Itemid=1
    ^There's an article from my group. A few people I know have even headed to Algeria to help out.
    I didn't read the whole article but skimmed over it to note the baseline. What this seem about is purely on the economist road. Things like these are noteworthy:
    - "For years, the PT has been calling for the creation of a Sovereign Constituent Assembly to break with all vestiges of the one-party system, to assert Algeria's sovereignty over its natural resources and decision-making process, and to codify the gains of the Algerian revolution, especially State control over the economy."
    - "It has been possible for the Algerian government to make these concessions in response to the growing mass mobilizations because a few years ago -- also under pressure from the Algerian masses, at the instigation of the PT and UGTA -- the Algerian government renationalized the oil industry in 2006 and three years later modified the Law on Finances, making it obligatory for the Algerian State to control at least 51 percent of all foreign-based corporations."
    - "And their mobilizations -- both in Algiers and throughout the country -- have resulted most of the time in important victories. Wages have been increased across the board. The government has instituted a massive public-works program that has created hundreds of thousands of jobs. Measures have been taken to refinance social services. Multinational and private corporations that refused to comply with Algerian law -- TONIC, Djezzy, Hadjret, and others -- have been nationalized."
    - "The PT struggles for democracy and socialism."

    So, the PT version of "democracy and socialism" seems to be nationalization, rule of law and bourgeois democracy.

    Yeah...

    Then again, it would be a step forwards for the working class movement politically if it was to make a breakthrough as it would organize the class as a class with a political program. The political program would have to be attacked though from a communist point of view to make it more about attacking the constitutional order and its rule of law and about working class rule.

    I'm also missing any international context. A call for a Democratic Republic of Arabia, for example, would be a step in the right direction as clearly workers power within the confines of Algeria is illusory and even the thoroughly reformist and "anti-imperialist" program of the PT will lead to isolation and impoverishment.
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    This is glorious news!

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    How is this the road to Bourgeois democracy? The constituitent assembly has the same role as in the Russian revolution. In the past 10 years the FLN has been without a doubt the representatives of the bourgeois. The nationalization of oil is being done as the first step Marx laid out for Socialists to do once they've gained power.

    However can somebody describe how this is leading to Bourgeois democracy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syd Barrett View Post
    How is this the road to Bourgeois democracy? The constituitent assembly has the same role as in the Russian revolution. In the past 10 years the FLN has been without a doubt the representatives of the bourgeois. The nationalization of oil is being done as the first step Marx laid out for Socialists to do once they've gained power.

    However can somebody describe how this is leading to Bourgeois democracy?
    Cuz' the PT is a run of the mill, socialdemocratic party? just cuz' lambert used to be a trot doesn't mean PT is anything more than a left wing, bourgeois party.
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    Good luck with that kind of pessimism. the entire reason for the split from USec was to become more militant, so the PT leadership in conjunction with the 4th int is about as revolutionary as it can get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syd Barrett View Post
    Good luck with that kind of pessimism. the entire reason for the split from USec was to become more militant, so the PT leadership in conjunction with the 4th int is about as revolutionary as it can get.
    i don't need "luck" for anything. exactly the same thing that happened to the nepalese maoists will happen to algerian trotskyists. trotskyism in general was never more than radical social democracy anyway imho
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    Most if not all Trot parties in europe are blatant social-democratic parties.
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    Right well the PT isn't a party of bourgeois intellectuals, there's a huge following among the working class in Algeria. If the PT was a social dem party they'd be participating in the government in a non aggitational, pro bourgeois way with the deputies they already have, which is something I'm not sure if they're doing or not. But the PT rose out of the struggles over the part 10 years. They are a legitimate threat to Capitalists who want to control the resources in Algeria.
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    The problem is, even assuming the PT is genuinely a revolutionary socialist party, that winning elections is not the same as a social revolution.

    A genuine revolution will instigate a sort of euphoria and optimism in neighbouring countries, and throughout the region, as we saw during the Arab spring.

    But winning parliamentary elections does not do the trick, so it will be isolated to Algeria. The socialist revolution needs to be regional/continental from its very beginning. If we saw a rise of revolutionary socialism in all Arab countries, then it'be time for optimism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syd Barrett View Post
    Good luck with that kind of pessimism. the entire reason for the split from USec was to become more militant, so the PT leadership in conjunction with the 4th int is about as revolutionary as it can get.
    Sure, but in isolation, it will end up like 'Nepal' and its 'Maoist' rule.
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    Who knows, maybe this will set stuff off in neighboring countries. At this moment though there doesn't exist any Revolutionary organisations in that region, at least I don't know if there is. However Algeria will make things in Europe and America worse, if they Nationalise the prices of gas will probably go up like a bat out of hell.

    In order to legitimize the revolutionary section of the PT, they need to remove the power that the FLN has in terms of oppression. The new elections will do just that. As soon as that happens we'll see a system of dual power between workers and capitalist parties, which is the point when I could see the revolution breaking out.

    The FLN government's role in the past 10 years could be seen as a conciliationist role between the NATO Bourgeois and the revolutionary workers of Algeria.
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    As a militant in a ML party, go trots, best of luck to prove us wrong and to do the best for the algerian working class.

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    This has nothing to do with us and them, the working class's politics are just reflected in the PT. Thus why they are popular. The Algerian working class accepts the PT's politics, which are of a working class dialectic.
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