View Poll Results: Do you subscribe to dialectical materialism?

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87. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    20 22.99%
  • No

    34 39.08%
  • I don't even understand it

    33 37.93%
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Thread: Out of sheer curiosity

  1. #1
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    Default Out of sheer curiosity

    Do you subscribe to the whole 'dialectics' thing?

    Also it would be a hoot if you gave your ideology as well.

    cheers,

    Holden

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    I'll go first, im not a follower of this particular religion, partly because when actually thought about it doesn't make sense to a materialist like myself.

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    You might want to change the wording to 'Do you accept dialectical materialism?' since your question is heavily biased.

    For example, comrades who accept dialectical materialism do not see it as mystical, so naturally they are going to tick 'No', or abstain.

    If you want an accurate response, you need to make your question neutral.

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    I don't really understand it and since you asked, I'm a Trot.
    Economic Left/Right: -9.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15
    "There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin


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    You might want to change the wording to 'Do you accept dialectical materialism?' since your question is heavily biased.

    For example, comrades who accept dialectical materialism do not see it as mystical, so naturally they are going to tick 'No', or abstain.

    If you want an accurate response, you need to make your question neutral.
    i was only kidding with the question, but if people are so humorless they need it changed then the mods can do their thang.

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    What the hell? Why are dialectics described as mystical? This poll is not impartial.
    i was only kidding with the question, but if people are so humorless they need it changed then the mods can do their thang.

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    I voted I don't even understand it because the whole thing makes absolutely no sense. It's totally detached from material reality and makes attempting to understand the conditions of the working-class very difficult.

    - August
    If we have no business with the construction of the future or with organizing it for all time, there can still be no doubt about the task confronting us at present: the ruthless criticism of the existing order, ruthless in that it will shrink neither from its own discoveries, nor from conflict with the powers that be.
    - Karl Marx

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    i was only kidding with the question, but if people are so humorless they need it changed then the mods can do their thang.
    Apperently so. What happened to light-hearted humor?
    Economic Left/Right: -9.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15
    "There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin


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    Ive tried to understand them but i just cant get it

    Quote Originally Posted by InsertNameHere View Post
    Apperently so. What happened to light-hearted humor?
    the Stalinists purged it
    "Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce

    "The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple." -Oscar Wilde

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    Zero King:

    The best way to actually understand dialectics is to read Marxist literature, preferably by Engels, Marx and Lenin. Through that you will understand dialectics and how they are used. To start off though, I would recommend the "ABC of dialectical materialism" by Leon Trotsky, found at marxists.org (for some reason it won't let me give the direct link).
    Unfortunately, as many threads here show, this theory makes no sense at all.

    I have listed these threads here:

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rosa.l/RevLeft.htm

    Alternatively, you can simply check this out:

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/nti-dialec...349/index.html

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    i was only kidding with the question, but if people are so humorless they need it changed then the mods can do their thang.
    You should never make jokes in public. You never know who's listening! Be safe, be paranoid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
    I'll go first, im not a follower of this particular religion, partly because when actually thought about it doesn't make sense to a materialist like myself.
    its not a religion its a philosophy
    Fight, Write, Promote and Die for the revolution

    When freedom depends on money then we are no longer free.
    Economic Left/Right: -9.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.10

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    its not a religion its a philosophy
    We've been over this. It was meant as a joke.
    Economic Left/Right: -9.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15
    "There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin


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    I voted "I don't understand it", but I'm sure by now that I don't understand it because it doesn't make sense.

    So, nope.

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    According to Wikipedia:

    1. Everything is transient and finite, existing in the medium of time (this idea is not accepted by all dialecticians).
    2. Everything is made out of opposing forces/opposing sides (contradictions).
    3. Gradual changes lead to turning points, where one force overcomes the other (quantitative change leads to qualitative change).
    4. Change moves in 3D spirals not 2D circles. (Sometimes referred to as "negation of the negation")

    Dialectical materialism with respect to Marx. Looking at everything with the perspective of class struggle is a way of looking at things. It doesn't necessarily mean everything that happens is based on class struggle. I accept or deny specific Marxist ideas without adopting this principle so I just don't see any reason to get into it.

    As for dialectic in general, I don't really know much about it. Based on the four points, I would say this:

    1. I would disagree.
    2. Seems true.
    3. Seems true.
    4. Change moves in 4D so I disagree there, too.

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    Dooga, if this is so:

    Change moves in 4D so I disagree there, too.
    then change would in fact be impossible -- or rather, change would merely represent our subjective view of successive orthogonal hyperplane slices through a four-dimensional manifold, but it would not be 'objective'.

    In 4D all points in the manifold of space-time coexist, and since change requires the passage pf time, which does not really happen in 4D, there can be no change.

    This is one reason why soviet philosophers rejected Relativity as a physical theory, and regarded it as merely a mathematical model.

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    i changed the title of the poll. i dont really care if they get offended or not but i think it would be more effective like this.

    i voted no. i mean i dont really understand it but not because of ignorance but because its nonsense and not even the master dialecticians understand themselves
    Formerly dada

    [URL="https://gemeinwesen.wordpress.com/"species being[/URL] - A magazine of communist polemic

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  22. #18
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    Marmot, you seem to have mis-spelt 'subscribe'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor View Post
    According to Wikipedia:

    1. Everything is transient and finite, existing in the medium of time (this idea is not accepted by all dialecticians).
    2. Everything is made out of opposing forces/opposing sides (contradictions).
    3. Gradual changes lead to turning points, where one force overcomes the other (quantitative change leads to qualitative change).
    4. Change moves in 3D spirals not 2D circles. (Sometimes referred to as "negation of the negation")

    Dialectical materialism with respect to Marx. Looking at everything with the perspective of class struggle is a way of looking at things. It doesn't necessarily mean everything that happens is based on class struggle. I accept or deny specific Marxist ideas without adopting this principle so I just don't see any reason to get into it.

    As for dialectic in general, I don't really know much about it. Based on the four points, I would say this:

    1. I would disagree.
    2. Seems true.
    3. Seems true.
    4. Change moves in 4D so I disagree there, too.
    Based on the definition here, I would have to say that I don't support it, and I think it is a crock of shit. I used to (when I was young and stupid) think that everything had an opposite. Except, that well, not everything does.
    What is the opposite of "roller skates"? "Non-roller skates"? That doesn't make sense.

    As for change moving in spirals (rather than circles ), seems like a religious idea, don't Hindus think something like that? More to the point, to accept this idea, you would have to accept it without evidence. Meh, etc.

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    AM:

    don't Hindus think something like that? More to the point, to accept this idea, you would have to accept it without evidence. Meh, etc.
    In fact, the majority of mystics do.

    You will find most of dialectics here, too:

    http://www.gnostic.org/kybalionhtm/kybalion.htm

    The Kybalion is the third most sacred book of Hermeticism.

    http://www.marxists.org/reference/su...s/en/magee.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism

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