Hi,
I'm pretty new to socialism and am still trying to get to grips with the basics.

I would like to get some wide opinion about these questions and am asking them with an open mind:

1* Did Stalin kill all those millions of people?

2* If he did... Did he have a choice about it?

3* If he did... Was it worth it?

4* If he didn't... What do you think really happened?

5* Any pro's and con's about Stalin and how the USSR was run under his leadership?

Thanks.

Quite a few people did die, they mostly had it coming and USSR was quite nice back then.


Actually, your best bet is taking a look at the many relevant threads around. People from every side have already and many times developed their opinions to the fullest and doing so once more is just an excuse for namecalling.

You have Stalin thread there. Ask your questions there.

There's no point of making Stalin thread in learning every week.

EVeryone has differing opinions. i personally believe he wasn't reponsible for 'all those millions of deaths' and see him in a positive light overall, but i aknowledge his mistakes.

ok but what has stalin got to do with it?

You're just angry he's so popular.

Well, can I add an extra question then....
.... what is to be learned from Stalin that could be applied to the current struggle for socialism?

Anyhow, I made some posts on things you can read to learn more about the "pro-stalin" argument, so if you sincerely want to learn more about this position, I suggest reading up.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...89&postcount=9

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...6&postcount=29

Hope this helps.

That the working class can move to socialism even in conditions that would at first glance seem rather unwelcome.

That even after the revolution, the struggle against reactionary policies does not cease.

That nazis are a cheap and effective way to improve the soil.

Stalin was a genuine Communist that always tried to act in the interests of the working class. However, Stalin did make mistakes and Stalin's Russia was not my ideal utopia. But I shall always defend him as a Leninist that stayed loyal to Anti-Revisionism and constructing Socialism. He engineered the Idea's of Marx and Lenin and resisted the savage Counter-Revolutionaries, Careerists and Opptunists that stood within the State.

All Communists should acknoledge Stalin to be a genuine Communist that fought tirelessly to act in the interests of the working class.

It does not matter hugely what is important building a future revolution.

The "millions" are drawn into two things. Myth and historical anaylsis.

Myth would included Stalin killed 40 milllion,30 million,etc but on gthe historical analysis this is where we can get more then one answer or no answers at all. Micheal Ellmans "Soviet Repression Statistics: a few comments" tells us a total of 12 million were repressed but of those 12 million only 4.4 were killed. *Great Purges reference* Of these 4.4 million we can divide this into non-intetional (not intented by the Party,Central committee,etc) And justifable. The Non-intetional goes to 3 million and we can futher put this into more sections.

GULAG: 1.5 million
Trial/transport/etc: 0.5 million
executed by state: 1 million

But I'm betting your saying "if the state/GULAG killed them wouldnt that be justifable?" and to this I say: no.

I say this for many were killed by self-interent, opportunists,etc trying to gain rank, more "glory" or just for the sake of removing an 'enemy' you didnt like. Intented by the killers? Yes. Intented by the All-Union Communist Party? No.

The justifable goes to 1.4 million which includes terrorists,Nazis,Nazbols,etc in which the ALCP(B) did intend to have them killed.



Though he was not the "all powerful dictator" he did have some choice in the economic and political sides of the Soviet Union with the plenums they, the Central committie, had but these became rare after 1939. The most plenums I've read about were somewhere between 1934 and 1937. The 1936 one was to decide the new consitution which was passed but not to its full image.

( can be found here http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/...36cons01.html)


It is impressive that he industrilized the country in little over a decade. But there are many faults he could have avoided but yes the collectivization was 'worth it' but it could have been done in a much more organized fashion.


Pro: Indsutrlization was a hude success, collectivization went better then what it could had been, the kulaks were beaten, the Leningraf affair stoped before any damage could have been done, survived the Facist invasion.

Con: Buecratic elements that could have been more confused on, opportunists that still survived while those who werent were killed by these said opportunists, not organized in a fashion in which it( collectivization and industrlization) could have went more smoother and with less causalites.

I'd go on but I'm far too tired.

I feel Stalin was a successful Communist leader. He had the best interests of the working class in mind and did his best to further Socialism in the USSR and, to an extent, the entire world.

The number of people that were killed under Stalin is up for debate, but I don't feel the number means much anyway. It is undeniable, I feel, that some people were killed unjustly, many by accident likely. The purges may have been paranoid but not completely un-called for, some 'innocents' probably got caught up in them. Also, Stalin was not the entirety of the organization in the USSR, he did not personally kill every single person, not an excuse but some perspective.

Stalin designed and enforced policies that did much to industrialize the country, remove reactionaries and other enemies such as the kulaks, and collectivize agriculture. Undoubtedly some things could have been done better, they always can be in retrospect. Under Stalin the USSR did deal the fatal blow to the Nazi's in Germany and liberated many European countries on the way. But do not forget the blood and spirit of the citizens of the USSR, their enthusiasm and resolve is what really gave the USSR the advantage.

How not to achieve socialism. Although if you want to struggle for a foul state capitalist dictatorship, Stalin is your man

STALIN IS OUR GRAND LORD ALL HAIL STALIN. HE WILL LEAD US INTO THE LIGHT 4EVAAAAAAAAAAA xxxxxx


Yeah he was a capable leader....

Now that's the spirit!

What a fucking disgusting abuse of maths and statistics, do you cretins get off on this shit?

Perhaps, but what really completes the fantasy is your anger.

. . .

Thank You. . .

I guess the cliquish feeling of self satisfaction when the couple of dozen members of the Stalin society write a paper 'proving' Stalin in fact was responsible for no innocent person's death is what completes this sick cycle of scuminess. I love how Polish Soviet was actually trying to balance the books of Stalin's killings: It wasn't 40 million, 30 million or even 10 million, only 4 million...thats fucking sick.

I have no problem admitting that some less than ideal things happened under Stalin, I just don't feel they warrant complete dis-ownership of him as a Communist. I also feel he had many successful policies and programs.