I'll bite.

It was a public meeting. The example you put above if not about the EDL would be the definition of democratic.

How about you start sending more PMs instead of constantly attention seeking for your super-secret grand plan of yet another so-called "militant anti-fascist" collective/organisation/group/batallion/lynchmob which "has to be done by PM guys!" yet you seemingly mention at every given opportunity?

As far as i'm concerned, all you're doing is attracting yet more opposition forces to this site. I wish you wouldn't.

oh, wait wasn't it the SWP that tried to discredit "ANTIFASCIST ACTION"...oh yeah I think it was.

Good.

Whats your point? That is, if you do aside from the obvious point of the SWP disagreeing with the tactics of squadism.

Although 'the squads' were started out of the SWP to some extent, but I guess the party didn't wanna indulge that sort of millitancy once it started getting bad publicity?

Sorry thats an honest question, if you feel it went differently, give me your side?

Pffft, keep the nonsensical infighting to a minimum please. Whilst I strongly disagree with the SWP's positions and tactics that's not the matter at hand here.

As far as the EDL is concerned, they're a joke, a bunch of casuals getting pissed waving the union jack and achieving fuck all. Eventually they'll get tired of what is essentially a game to most of these buffoons and the whole thing'll collapse. They have no means to consolidate any form of power and most certainly not anything radically different from or worse than capitalism as we know it.

The core problem here is the failure of the radical left so far to build a successfull counter-power on a class-basis. Only an initiative grounded in class-politics is capable of opposing reactionary movements like the EDL or far right Islamists like Choudry cum suis.

L'ANTIFASCISME C'EST BIEN, LA REVOLUTION C'EST MIEUX!!

I think you ask a air question, NP.

I agree.

I don't think it was about 'bad publicity' in the slightest, we all know that the SWP doesn't get particularly good publicity anyway . For me, 'militant anti-fascism' is often construed as simply physical confrontation. When talking aout 'smashing fascism' we should be meaning to smash the political organs of fascism and defending communities, getting physical where necessary; not the way that AFA have in the past which I personally believe does not have an adequate class basis and tantamounts to alienation of the class (case in point is the screwdriver attacks on a BPP meeting which was reported on this site). I believe the situation got out of hand within the SWP, I think we made some mistakes; but also those who went on to Red Action also did. Strategy and tactic is not something rigid, uniform and absolute - situations change and we learn from our experiences.

I did mean 'fair' question...some of you may have noticed I often have a problem with the 'f' key on my keyboard.

You live and you learn. Main lesson to learn is not to do meetings that are likely to be targetted by potentially dangerous football hooligans and ultra-nationalists, unless you're confident about your abilities.

We can sit here all day condemning and sniping at each other. Lets just let the Leeds lot learn from this and for everyone else to just heed it as a warning of what not to do. LIVE AND LEARN!

Bullshit. You don't have to experience it before figuring out that the EDL are likely to gatecrash your meeting that is organising against them- especially when groups have had meetings targeted already. This meeting also spoke of militancy and the, now taken down statement from the Antifascist Coalition, said that the EDL with not 'be tolerated on the streets' anymore, wtf? So they will not be tolerated on the streets but they will be tolerated in a meeting that was supposed to be composed of people wanting to militantly combat them. Why weren't they even calmly ushered out, it's not like there was many- 20-4.

The attendees where fucking lucky that the EDL didn't pop round mob handed and turned them over. How can people organise against people known to use violence if they do not even try to provide a safespace for a public meeting.

It's also ridiculous why this is being repeatably wiped from Indymedia aswell.

The real question that needs to be answered is what were the organisers thinking? I also wonder if any coppers were in attendance.

agree with the above , letting the edl into a meeting supposedly to discuss how you're going to smash them is pathetic.......a victory aginst one of us is a victory against us all..The EDL are laughing there fat arses off about this ,sort your selves out Leeds AFED , you've made us look like right royal mugs

Not to slate the well meaning Yorkshire 'commrades' (uggh I hate using that word... but I am using it out of respect here) but it does amazes me that security had not been better thought out? Maybe consult some people about stewarding for future meetings?

We've heard it all before - neonazis going on about Judaism in much the same way as your group EDL now go about demonising Islam.
Judaism is a total belief system. Christianity is a total belief system. So what if they are belief systems?

Your group EDL advocates a proto-fascist street-response against all Muslims in Britain. That's one of the issues. We'll come to the others later.

As for your Kahanist JDL USA friends whom EDL reached out to as early as September 2009, they are a proscribed terrorist group in both USA and Israel, so EDL's involvement with them leaves EDL wide open to just claims that EDL associates with a known terrorist group that has been proscribed in ISRAEL, rendering all EDL claims that EDL supports Israel invalid.

EDL now supports some real hardline religious wingnuts who support a single-state, continuation of settlement building and this is contradiction to the recent motion at the Zionist Congress, who voted for a two-state solution and a full settlement-building freeze.

SO much for being generally ZIONIST. The claim to be pro-Israel and pro-Zionist are false. The people you aligned with are against a two-state solution and pro-continued settlement expansion.

EDL willingly sought out and linked itself to hardline religious right-wing extremists. The same type of extremists that EDL leaders say they're against.
This renders the claim that EDL are against extremists invalid.

Other important issues beside the issue of EDL cosying up to rightwing religious extremists and a proscribed terrorist organisation are the blatent lie that EDL is a single-issue organisation.

It is most defnitely not a single-issue organisation, and we should discuss the EDL's claim to be a single-issue group as openly as possible, so that EDL members can read what we write.

Here are Charles Martel or Charles the Hammer's and Snowy Nesbit's reports:

Hmm. Well, credit where it's due I'm suppose. They do seem to have been trying to be diplomatic. Can't fault them on that.

Seeing as though the focus of the meeting was militant anti-fascism, then making it public was very silly and this should never have happened. Fortuantly, these guys seem to be some of the nicer lot who, just like the rest of us, just want some pretty damn basic stuff like food, a home, medical care, education for thier kids and the like. As they quite rightly point out, if they'd wanted to have caused trouble, they could have easily and gotton away with it.

That bieng said, I'm wondering whether there could have been an attempt to talk to these guys. I mean, after all, we're all after the same sort of thing - a comfortable life. The only difference really is in strategy. They think that they're going to get that stuff by attacking some imaginary terrorists, while we believe that workers united will get what we all want. Obviously, you can't have it both ways because attacking muslims divides the workers, which prevents unification.

Then again, I'm sat here saying this and I wasn't there and I imagine that the AF guys were a bit shaken up for whatever reason. Maybe we should try diplomacy?

Yeah, not letting people leave a venue sounds like a completely passive act.
HAI, LETS TALK U GUYZ, NOW!

basic idea:

1. show up to there gigs and show them that they are not going to have free rule
2. talk to community people (sympathetic mayors/Muslims/anyone) try to get the people of that community to understand the EDL are thugs and that a peaceful community wont let violent thugs into the area
3. pass around fliers and anti-fa music samplers to anyone who might want one
4. get those south african horns and drown them out with noise

these are basic ideas that can be used in general and have been mentioned on this forum plenty of times, and none of them are violent which is a preferable in my opinion

I'm confused.. they let them stay at the meeting and nothing resorted to violence?
Still waiting on another EDL/WDL March in Wales, chasing 100 of them off into the distance and then they claim we're cowards?

"The situation is getting dire" because a bunch of people attended a (publicly advertised?) meeting and its organisers did not know how to deal with it? Hmm...

Stuff like this:

Surely this is down to inexperience of some sort? From the outside, I get the impression that some folks are playing a game without understanding the stakes. They've seen some videos from Germany or Italy or whatever, and now they also want to be "Antifa hooligans" who are going to "smash the Nazis in the streets", with treehouse meetings to prepare it, posturing on the internet about who has the biggest penis, etc.

This thread is a pretty funny example, with all the call-outs by durhamleft and stuff like that. Ooh look at me, I'm preparing a militant anti-fascist force, BUT please PM me because teh internets aren't safe!!! I'd say there's a lot of confusion and inexperience in general.

EDIT: I see that in the "Similar Threads" list, there is a link to the "Dire Straits appreciation thread". It is completely off-topic, but kind of cool. Dire Straits can never be appreciated enough.

I don't posture on the internet cos I don't need to. It's a great place for discusion but not for action. Plus a lot of people are very good at talkin up their millitancy but don't understand the reality of actually acting out on it.

I recently had a mate tell me the best way to deal with the EDL was molotov cocktails... right... he also couldn't comprehend what the EDL are (they ARE NOT FASCISTS but loyalists/patriots/nationalists- still not a good thing, but not as bad as they could become). Admitably he was drunk at the time.

While we should not compromise or back down to the EDL we should try and engage them in debate if given the chance, try and make them realise all the lies goverment proganda and the media has fed them. However if we are gonna have a public meeting to discuss them, it should be done with proper (experinced stewarding) and as a broad front (ie not just anarchists).

AF Leeds and their side of the story.

http://yorks-afed.org/2010/07/report...-of-july-2010/