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  #41  
Old 11th November 2009, 18:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motionless View Post
I've never seen anything to suggest that the struggle in less developed countries revolves around anything other than Marxism-Leninism. India, Nepal, the Philippines, these are the countries which are leading the way for socialist revolution today, and all of them follow the path of Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin-Mao.

Also, to Mayakovsky, those people in the second picture you posted are white and likely European or North American, it could be the New Peru Friendship Association who are based in Sweden, anyway, they don't look very oppressed. My point is that Maoism is basically non-existent in developed countries because the conditions do not favour the Maoist strategy so well, look to the third world, the people who truly understand that decisive action is necessary, it is Maoists who are taking point in the revolutions in these countries. Comparing pictures of Trotskyists in Bolivia or Colombia or wherever that was taken, and Maoists in Sweden, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Latin america may not have active guerrilla organizations as big as far-asia, but the class-consiousness is roughly equal. They are not all maoists. Not saying that maoism is bad.

Besides, we should be happy for the anti-capitalist masses anywhere despite their sect. Anything else is sectarianism.
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Old 11th November 2009, 18:12
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Originally Posted by NecroCommie View Post
Latin america may not have active guerrilla organizations as big as far-asia, but the class-consiousness is roughly equal. They are not all maoists. Not saying that maoism is bad.
Examples please? I know only of the Clandestine Communist Party of Colombia. They are not Maoists, but they implement the Maoist theory of PPW as well.
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Old 11th November 2009, 18:19
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+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

RATM supporting the Shining Path. Cool video and a good song.
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Old 11th November 2009, 18:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motionless View Post
I've never seen anything to suggest that the struggle in less developed countries revolves around anything other than Marxism-Leninism. India, Nepal, the Philippines, these are the countries which are leading the way for socialist revolution today, and all of them follow the path of Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin-Mao.

....Zapatistas anyone?
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Old 11th November 2009, 18:38
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....Zapatistas anyone?
Indeed, although they are not very big and are likely to be destroyed in their entirety by the Mexican state soon.

I think people are correct in generally saying south america has a high class consciousness, on the specifics however I don't think you can say people follow "the exact formula of marx-lenin-mao-stalin" or anything like that, it is true though that regardless of your political affiliations, a lot of south american countries are led by revisionist or pretty liberal governments, Nicaragua.. Honduras, Argentina etc, the extent of their progressiveness is a long topic in itself.

There have obviously been traditional organisations who don't identify as maoist in their political affiliation that have had large successes in south america too, but yeah I don't think blanketly covering anywhere as "definitely working to this formula" really achieves much.
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Old 11th November 2009, 18:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red cat View Post
Examples please? I know only of the Clandestine Communist Party of Colombia. They are not Maoists, but they implement the Maoist theory of PPW as well.
Communist parties and class consciousness are two different things. Also, class consciousness does not necessarily manifest itself as a revolutionary movement. But since you asked --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...alism_(Bolivia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ty_(Costa_Rica)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_Chile
  #47  
Old 11th November 2009, 19:13
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Originally Posted by RedSonRising View Post
....Zapatistas anyone?
Slipped my mind, that said I don't really see them working towards a socialist Mexico, although what they are doing in their own communities of course is very positive and progressive, they have been on ceasefire for over a decade now, and they're not exactly in a position to trigger a revolution.
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Originally Posted by NecroCommie View Post
Communist parties and class consciousness are two different things. Also, class consciousness does not necessarily manifest itself as a revolutionary movement. But since you asked --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...alism_(Bolivia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ty_(Costa_Rica)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_Chile
These groups are all entirely reformist, in fact I believe the Costa Rican PLN are a part of Socialist International, which British Labour is a member of.
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Old 11th November 2009, 19:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motionless View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroCommie
Communist parties and class consciousness are two different things. Also, class consciousness does not necessarily manifest itself as a revolutionary movement. But since you asked --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...alism_(Bolivia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ty_(Costa_Rica)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_Chile

These groups are all entirely reformist, in fact I believe the Costa Rican PLN are a part of Socialist International, which British Labour is a member of.
Right. Third-world parliamentary parties without armed revolutionary forces are all reformists.
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Old 11th November 2009, 20:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motionless View Post
These groups are all entirely reformist, in fact I believe the Costa Rican PLN are a part of Socialist International, which British Labour is a member of.
Quote:
...class consciousness does not necessarily manifest itself as a revolutionary movement...
I was not claiming revolutionary. I claimed class consciousness. Besides, I was under the illusion that wide anti-capitalism in Latin america was common knowledge in Revleft.
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Old 11th November 2009, 20:45
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Depends upon what you mean by anti-capitalism. All revisionist parties pay lip-service to that, and even organize rallies seemingly against some capitalist powers. But they support capitalism through their deeds.
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Old 11th November 2009, 22:03
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Indeed, although they are not very big and are likely to be destroyed in their entirety by the Mexican state soon.
That is complete bullshit, unless you can produce proof to prove your point.

Red—Revolutionary: Just because you denounce that wikipedia as a bourgeois capitalist propaganda organ that is so unreliable that "mature" debates cannot be based upon information contained therein, does not make it so. Has their been a CC vote or any thread in which the revleft community has agreed that for the purposes of this forum, wikipedia cannot be used as a credible source?
I denounce revleft for surely there are capitalist and fascist moles planting misinformation somewhere, therefor we cannot trust any post to be true and cannot present them as evidence in any other posy.
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  #52  
Old 11th November 2009, 22:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red cat View Post
Depends upon what you mean by anti-capitalism. All revisionist parties pay lip-service to that, and even organize rallies seemingly against some capitalist powers. But they support capitalism through their deeds.
Parties, perhaps, but what about the masses that rally behind these promises? Is that not what the discussion is about?
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Old 11th November 2009, 22:30
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Originally Posted by NecroCommie View Post
Parties, perhaps, but what about the masses that rally behind these promises? Is that not what the discussion is about?
But the masses are successfully diverted by these parties. Today revisionist parties form the political basis of capitalist exploitation, because the existence of the proletariat implies that if there is no party that claims itself to be proletarian, then it is likely that this political space will be filled by a vanguard party that naturally arises from the proletariat, that is, a genuine communist party.
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Old 11th November 2009, 22:56
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Originally Posted by theredson View Post
That is complete bullshit, unless you can produce proof to prove your point.
You can ask our resident user on this forum 'Forward Union' exactly what's going on around Chiapas, he was a part of them and I'm pretty confident he will tell you the same thing I did.
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Old 11th November 2009, 23:08
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Phat Rage tune. Also I think the Manics support Shining Path a little maybe. They give them a shout out in one of their songs Baby Elian. "We follow a shining path that you can never destroy". Yeah
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Old 12th November 2009, 00:06
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If Rage writes a song about them, they must be authentic revolutionaries?
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Old 12th November 2009, 00:25
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No but that is a cool song it's good to know that awesome rock groups support progressive movements like Shining Path.
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Old 12th November 2009, 18:38
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Originally Posted by theredson View Post
Red—Revolutionary: Just because you denounce that wikipedia as a bourgeois capitalist propaganda organ that is so unreliable that "mature" debates cannot be based upon information contained therein, does not make it so. Has their been a CC vote or any thread in which the revleft community has agreed that for the purposes of this forum, wikipedia cannot be used as a credible source?
I denounce revleft for surely there are capitalist and fascist moles planting misinformation somewhere, therefor we cannot trust any post to be true and cannot present them as evidence in any other posy.
It is accepted as a discredited source not only in Revleft but in any intellectual or academic debate.
Hence why the likes of Universitys, Colleges, political works etc do not use Wikipedia as a referance because of its inherent weaknesses.
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Old 13th November 2009, 00:34
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Originally Posted by Rite-Boii View Post
It is accepted as a discredited source not only in Revleft but in any intellectual or academic debate.
Hence why the likes of Universitys, Colleges, political works etc do not use Wikipedia as a referance because of its inherent weaknesses.
Not to attempt to divert the topic; but I think certainly on other language wikipedias it can generally be a lot less biased. Also, some articles have left bias and I'm pretty sure of that, I can't think of any off the top of my head but some certainly do have different kinds of left bias. In the end of the day, you have to take wikipedia article-by-article, depending on the article's sources and exactly what's written on there (and sometimes, who it has been written by).
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Old 13th November 2009, 04:29
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It is accepted as a discredited source not only in Revleft.
When was is accepted as such? I see it used frequently with no objections.

Neither side has produced any (conclusive) evidence that the shining path in a true revolutionary organization. The burden of proof is on the affirmative if I remember correctly. I would really like to get to the truth but refusing to engage in debate because of your opponent's lack of credible sources doesn't really help your case.

Is- Forward union agreed that it was a possibility but gave no proof or reasoning behind it. Given the Mexican government's preoccupation with the cartels at the moments and the Zapatistas ample international support, I find a total eradication scenario to be unlikely. Of course I could be wrong.
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