Anybody read Hegel, what problems do you find in his system.

Considering how important this is for Marxism, I think it neccessary everybody know where in fact Marx is coming from.

I found that he depends on semantics a lot of the time, which annoys the hell out of me. I've tried reading various of his writtings, the only one I really "liked" was The Science of Logic.

I find Hegel to be decidedly fascinating whilst being highly complicated to comprehend with absolute meticulousness, at the same time.

Perhaps that his "raw" attraction?!

I've read The Phenomenology of Mind, The Philosophy of History, and Lectures on the History of Philosophy.

I don't think -- for now -- I have a proper, firm understanding of Hegel's "overall" philosophy. So I can't really offer any solid critiques against his "system".

I think Marx inherited a lot from Hegel; something a lot of modern day Marxist's tend to "down-play".

Do I think Hegel is a charlatan? Absolutely not!

He had some original things to say, in relation to History and it's progression.

The idea that reason is the driving force behinf history, is a demon constructed by [i]man[i]kind, and is an excuse for practically anything that for the moment thus suite the patriarchate. Hegel is just another male philosopher, who motivates his own unability to gain sexual pleasure by projecting his ideals on the universe.

How did you manage to infer that, has somebody been taking postmodern feminism again?

I find Hegel confusing, complicated and boring.

It's not so hard with a bit of study, plus I can't see how you can really understand Marx without at least some of his work behind you.

Maybe I understand some of Hegel without realising it. I don’t see why understanding Hegel is a prerequisite to understanding Marx? If you pick up a Marxism for beginners book and start from there, then it is quite easy to get a grasp of Marxism.

It's a basis, the basis for Marx's ideas. I am saying this from a philosophical perspective, his political ideas can be watered down but actual ideas in theory etc from a philosophy point of view would enormously benefit from Hegel.

Hegel was the prerequisite for alot of Marx's theories . But Hegel himself was extremely backwards , he went on about as long as you feel spiritually free then you are etcHegels advice to any worker exploited by his boss would be "Don't worry yourself about material oppression but only that of the spiritual kind . He thought as long as slavery was abolished man was free . He didn't see capitalism as a stage of exploitation .

Hegel did lay the path for Marx however , Human development according to Hegel had gone through constant evolution starting with primitive oriental despotism in which only one man can be free , and next an aristocratic system which many more were free . (To a degree he was right i suppose)

Later still came the age of feudalism ,monarchy , the French revolution and thus the Prussian State of which Hegel thought it was absolute liberty , in reality this just formed capitalism a subtler way of exploiting I guess . Up to this point however Marx agreed with Hegel and thus decided to elaborate on his works


Edit- Jan 2005 ... oops .. sorry =\

Coggy, I have dissected Hegel's 'Logic' here:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...97&postcount=2

A slightly fuller account can be found here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rosa.l/..._errors_01.htm

A greatly extended demolition can be found here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rosa.l/page%2008_02.htm#What-Are-Dialectical-Contradictions


Finally, we have shown many times here that the idea that Das Kapital was based on Hegel's 'logic' is so far from the truth, it's in the next star system; the latest example is here:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...0&postcount=25

I find most philosophy, especially idealist types etc, to be that way.

Sorry , I just googled revleft and hegel .

Thanks for the links comrade

In fact, I have just re-written the article at the second link above to make it clearer.

Well Marx famously 'turned Hegel on his head' when developing his own theory of materialism.

K:

In fact, as I have shown (if you follow the links), Marx actually shot Hegel in the head.

I have merely buried the remains.

You know, I might even be tempted, but when you subscribe to the anthology of conspiracy theories and demagoguery known as 'Trotskyism'.... I cannot.

Trotsky is trying to destroy a now non-existant Stalinist state from beyond the grave.... oooooohhhh.

But seriously, in addition to the "upside-down materialism" that other people have pointed out, Hegel believed that society could be changed and perfected by "an enlightened monarch". He was a product of his age and position in society.

K:

You do not know enough logic and/or philosophy to take me on, sonny.

Plus, you are a coward with a big mouth.

Well my problem is that Trotskyism has no practical bearing or position in material reality, people accuse us 'Stalinists' of being obsessed etc but in reality we don't revere the man, we simply accept his analysis and addition to Marxism-Leninism. In reality it's the Trots who participate in a quasi-spiritualist cult with an individual cult of worship around Trotsky.

It's also infinetely politically opportunistic, so it will do away with it's theories if the situation dictates, the only thing he really came up with was 'permanent revolution' and he stole that idea too, and I just can't see anything practical or real in Trotskyism - it doesn't analyze based on material conditions and objective analysis. Trotskyism peddles conspiracy theories as a substitute for the objective study of history.

Trotskyism has no firm grounding in Marxism, but it has everything to do with Hegelian idealism and fascism, it peddles the 'internationalist' imperialist credo in such a biblical way that would make Hitler blush. It's highly subjectivist in philosophy.

Well Hegel ultimately believed that society was moved by the imperceptible, hard-to-define temporary impulses of human fanatical idealism, this was the basis of social change and not material conditions as Marx proposed.

It also reminds me of Plato and the 'philosopher kings' which I believe influenced Hegel, it's that stuff in Laws, Hegel and later in Gentile that became the basis for fascism.