RevLeft Stalinism

  1. Тачанка
    Let's all have a collective circlejerk about how pathetic it is.
  2. Тачанка
    I agree, it's pathetic!
  3. Q
    Q
    What is this going to accomplish?
  4. Тачанка
    Sexual satisfaction
  5. cantwealljustgetalong
    cantwealljustgetalong
    I'm relatively new to revolutionary politics and I am still shocked by the fact that people who claim to be in favor of the liberation of the worker could rally behind a mass-murdering totalitarian regime.

    On one hand, I posit that anti-Stalinism is not mere sectarianism, but that it is every bit as important to leftist movements as anti-fascism and anti-racism. Until Stalinism dies away, communism in general is going to have a hard time being taken seriously, even by reasonable people.

    On the other hand, Trotskyists need to build a revolutionary front with other groups in order to be successful, and Stalinist groups seem to be the largest. This is most unsettling.
  6. Rooster
    I wouldn't worry about it too much. These people are a minority within the left political spectrum.
  7. Q
    Q
    Quote Originally Posted by rooster
    I wouldn't worry about it too much. These people are a minority within the left political spectrum.
    A very vocal one though
  8. Rooster
    Quote Originally Posted by Q
    A very vocal one though
    I admit that they're a "hard core" group that sticks to their own. But that's the thing, they mostly just stick to their one group. Looking over past election results as a means of measurment, in Scotland they amount to a little over 240 members who actively particpate in the party, but, there's no way of knowing how many of them are die hard stalinists. That's in comparison to the 100,000+ who voted for other socialist parties. The figures are mostly the same throughout the UK. I don't have figures for the rest of Europe though, but I think it's mostly the same sort of proportions. They even have less of a presence then far right groups. So groups such as the BNP and NF are more of a worry than a piddling little stalinst clique.
  9. Boris Krinkle
    Boris Krinkle
    I think the main reason the stalinist parties are stronger is because they are supported by the bourgeoise. think about it: it is in the best interests of the borugeoise to have "communist" parties that represent no real threat to their power be the biggest. the stalinist cpusa supports barack obama, maybe with his administration its the other way around too?
  10. Q
    Q
    Quote Originally Posted by Boris Krinkle
    I think the main reason the stalinist parties are stronger is because they are supported by the bourgeoise. think about it: it is in the best interests of the borugeoise to have "communist" parties that represent no real threat to their power be the biggest. the stalinist cpusa supports barack obama, maybe with his administration its the other way around too?
    30 years ago, you might have had a point. Today the CPUSA is on the bring of complete disintegration and most Stalinist parties over the world have either reinvented themselves (mostly by moving to the right), or dissolved as well (such as the old CPGB). The Stalinoid sectlets that still exist are completely irrelevant, with a few notable exceptions.
  11. A.R.Amistad
    A.R.Amistad
    Quote Originally Posted by rooster
    I admit that they're a "hard core" group that sticks to their own. But that's the thing, they mostly just stick to their one group. Looking over past election results as a means of measurment, in Scotland they amount to a little over 240 members who actively particpate in the party, but, there's no way of knowing how many of them are die hard stalinists. That's in comparison to the 100,000+ who voted for other socialist parties. The figures are mostly the same throughout the UK. I don't have figures for the rest of Europe though, but I think it's mostly the same sort of proportions. They even have less of a presence then far right groups. So groups such as the BNP and NF are more of a worry than a piddling little stalinst clique.
    Actually, I would say Stalinist parties are the opposite of "hard core" as in sticking to their politics stubbornly. They are extremely opportunistic and will completely overhaul and revise their ideology on a whim. Historically going from an ultraleft sectarian position that allowed fascism to win in Europe to veering to the right and uncritically supporting bourgeois governments and parties in the name of "anti-fascism" a few years later. They've gone from unconditional support of the USSR bureaucracy at any cost to spewing the same capitalist propaganda against the history of the progressive features of the USSR, Bolshevik revolution, etc. and embracing the new fad of "Eurocommunism." They're an unpredictable bunch, Stalinists.

    The only "Stalinoid" groups I've seen that Q is describing were some Hoxhaist parties in GB. Looking at their websites they prove his point. Every single article on their website is either about how Stalin was the greatest man who ever lived or how Trotsky was a "Nazi collaborator" and other bullshit. You'd think the Five Year Plans were still going on if you went off everything they cover on their site! Nothing about Libya, anti-austerity protests, etc. etc.
  12. Ismail
    Ismail
    Quote Originally Posted by A.R.Amistad
    The only "Stalinoid" groups I've seen that Q is describing were some Hoxhaist parties in GB. Looking at their websites they prove his point. Every single article on their website is either about how Stalin was the greatest man who ever lived or how Trotsky was a "Nazi collaborator" and other bullshit. You'd think the Five Year Plans were still going on if you went off everything they cover on their site! Nothing about Libya, anti-austerity protests, etc. etc.
    I know this isn't my group, but I assume you mean the Communist League website, which hasn't been updated in many, many years and supported Bill Bland, who died in 2001. If you want a pro-Hoxha website that regularly updates, then see: http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/

    The ICMLPO is the pro-Hoxha international.

    Enver Hoxha denounced "Eurocommunism" (in fact he wrote an entire book about it), so I don't see how you can attribute that to "Stalinism." Even the CPSU denounced "Eurocommunism" for its own reasons (namely, because these parties were looking towards the West rather than the East.) As early as 1964 Hoxha correctly noted that the pro-Soviet CPs in Western Europe were degenerating into social-democratic parties.
  13. Who?
    Who?
    Quote Originally Posted by rooster
    I admit that they're a "hard core" group that sticks to their own. But that's the thing, they mostly just stick to their one group. Looking over past election results as a means of measurment, in Scotland they amount to a little over 240 members who actively particpate in the party, but, there's no way of knowing how many of them are die hard stalinists. That's in comparison to the 100,000+ who voted for other socialist parties. The figures are mostly the same throughout the UK. I don't have figures for the rest of Europe though, but I think it's mostly the same sort of proportions. They even have less of a presence then far right groups. So groups such as the BNP and NF are more of a worry than a piddling little stalinst clique.
    Hey, this my first time posting in this group. I'm not here to troll or anything and I hope that you'll allow me to stay.

    I'm not really sure how Trotskyists define "Stalinism" these days. Is it just used to refer to contemporary Marxist-Leninists, Maoists and Hoxhaists? If so I have some bad news for you. The Trotskyist myth of "Stalinist" irrelevancy is just that, a myth. While I agree that Trotskyism is more popular than other Leninist trends in the UK, Portugal, France and Algeria I'm hard-pressed to find other examples outside of those four nations. Marxism-Leninism is incredibly popular throughout continental Europe. Marxist-Leninist CPs in countries like the Czech Republic and Greece are extraordinarily popular and hold multiple seats in their respective parliaments.

    There are numerous other examples (notably Nepal and Cyprus) where Maoist or Marxist-Leninist CPs lead ruling coalitions.

    Hell, even the Hoxhaist PCLME holds five seats in the Ecuadorian National Assembly.

    I fail to see how Trotskyists still manage to convince themselves that they're more relevant than "Stalinists" given the facts.
  14. Boris Krinkle
    Boris Krinkle
    Quote Originally Posted by Q
    30 years ago, you might have had a point. Today the CPUSA is on the bring of complete disintegration and most Stalinist parties over the world have either reinvented themselves (mostly by moving to the right), or dissolved as well (such as the old CPGB). The Stalinoid sectlets that still exist are completely irrelevant, with a few notable exceptions.
    Yeah, true enough. But the CPUSA remains deviod of revolutionary spirit (pro-stalin or not) but at the same time it appears they are still the most well known "communist" party in the states. which may be due to people like Glenn Beck (before he lost his show lol) always inviting them to debate, thus making them the most visable.

    they, i think, are like a fake communist opposition, like the CPRF in Russia
  15. Ismail
    Ismail
    Quote Originally Posted by Boris Krinkle
    Yeah, true enough. But the CPUSA remains deviod of revolutionary spirit (pro-stalin or not) but at the same time it appears they are still the most well known "communist" party in the states. which may be due to people like Glenn Beck (before he lost his show lol) always inviting them to debate, thus making them the most visable.

    they, i think, are like a fake communist opposition, like the CPRF in Russia
    The difference is that the CPRF, for all the lameness within it, is actually a strong party electorally. The CPUSA, by contrast, is absolutely lame and has no redeeming value whatsoever (the CPRF doesn't have much either) outside of its publishing arm, International Publishers, which has some interesting books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Who?
    Hell, even the Hoxhaist PCLME holds five seats in Ecuadorian parliament.
    You mean the MPD, the electoral wing of the PCMLE. It's also worth pointing out that the pro-Hoxha parties in the Ivory Coast, Tunisia (where it is basically the CP) and Burkina Faso are fairly notable as well.
  16. socialist_n_TN
    socialist_n_TN
    Stalinism, literally the dustbin of history. Has ANYTHING ever failed as spectacularly as Stalinism?
  17. PolskiLenin
    PolskiLenin
    Comrade socialist n TN, anarchism has!
  18. socialist_n_TN
    socialist_n_TN
    Good point Comrade PolskiLenin. Good point.
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