OK, so I understand that the Communist League accepts "workers only," but given the symbols used by the League, what about peasants (and their First World counterparts)? Are they the exception to the rule prohibiting petit-bourgeois folks from joining?

There've been a lot of other threads discussing this organization, which basically exists only on the internet and maybe in Detroit, anyway. Do a search.

If it exists even there, anymore:
Statement by a few of its "founding members" declaring the organization dissolved.

^^^ Yikes! Sexism?!

Heh, I'm surprized Severian reads the CL page still, I don't even do so anymore. This is the first I've heard.

For me, who is not in Detriot, yes it did. (Had I any idea what went on in Detriot? No.)
And thats one of the reasons why I quit the CL.

I knew it would fall apart. You can't base a movement on the web, you have to start locally and move from there-- then you go on the web. If you base everything on the web, you litterally can't see you'r memberaship, who they are what they think ect. ect.

Now for the article.

The Basic Principles, however very long winded, were very basic of an organization, it really didn't take into account the splits of the movements in the past, and that everyone to some degree agrees with split(s) for whatever reason.
Splits on one hand are bad because they create a cleavage in the movement, sects, but on the otherhand when different tendencies can't be helped-- theres a clarity of vision for whatever tendency you ended up in. Somethings are just outdated, especially in my opinion in this stage of imperialism. The other main problem was, besides very little personal interaction, was people of different tendencies were joining the league. The league didn't try to create something new, to make people abandon their previous tendencies, even if it did, the CL would be of a different tendency.

Again not taking into account the different historical tendencies.

That was a result because of Frontism: If you remember the League supporting a SPUSA candidate in Detriot (who was running Green)-- the idea is that she would win, but would be allowed her seat, and an uproar would take place, and if you remember the CL supporting the IFC (which is a front for the Worker-Communists of Iraq). You can even see frontism taking place on an IFC pdf paper, where CLers are holding IFC signs and if you look closely you'll see the CL logo printed very small on the bottom-- pretty cheesey.
look on page 3 of the PDF
If you scroll down to page 4, and look at the bottom, you will notice an editor by the name of "Henry Miles".

Frontism is confusing, you're using pressure methods to achieve revolutionary means. People get the message confused, opportunists join the ranks, and you end up being a pressure group.

That's what happens when most of the movement in based in cyber-space, you don't really know your members, and then something surfaces after a period of time. I wonder if this meeting took place on-line. (Much like the time a Mexican Anarchist was reported to be at a meeting on a CL document after a discussion took place on Rev-Left, through a thread).

What action will be taken? The blocking of such people from AIM, or ICQ?

Whats the point, just euthanize the dying horse. Start a new with better principles,
stop writing all these pdfs over basic events and issues-- most people know what Communists think on events and issues, write theoretical stuff. Have an HTML archieve. If something is to be printed VIA the computer, be it a small agitation pamphlet that introduces people to the large propiganda piece on-line. The CL never had the resources to launch a paper. if you go on with PDF papers being written all the time, no one will distribute them. Finally, before signing anyone up hold public conferences, at a library or something. Make sure they are really interested in joining, and have expirence. If they don't have expirience, help them gain it. Don't count on a person you met on cyber-space to meet others in real life.

Why was the CL dictated by outside interests? For one thing, there were multi-tendencies the league allied with, and ignored such historic tendencies. So members of other organizations with strong tendencies joined the league, with the intentions of signing up CLers. The league was guilty of the same thing. Remember when Ricardo Santiago of FPM went to jail? The League thought the FPM would dissolve, and that it's members would join the CL. It didn't count on the FPM using this incident for recruitment.

I knew this would happen.

I pointed it out to him, after a former CLer pointed it out to me.

The statement on the League website is total bullshit.

The real membership of the Communist League has booted the clowns in Detroit who would rather spend their time playing Second Life than organizing in real life.

The Communist League is a real organization, in spite of its founders

If people take the time to cut through all the bullshit, what can be seen with this attempted dissolution of the Communist League is an an exercise in bourgeois property rights. The 2 founders of the League (to be named later) and their sycophant known here as lonered are trying to take their ball and go home because they don't like internal democracy. Just like capitalists, they seek to privately own a collective product just because it was their idea in the beginning.

Stay tuned for a new website and publications. Also, if you were a part of the Communist League in the past and were alienated by Miles aka Stone aka... please get in touch. Do to his overcentralization of the organization, we don't know why people left in the past or how to contact them.

Contrary to what has been published on the hijacked Communist League website, the Communist League is not dissolving.

The short story is that the membership of the League has decided to exercise democratic control over our organization and our personal "Bob Avakian" known as Miles/Stone resigned before we could expell him. He took two members with him and he can have them.

The statement now posted on the Communist League website can be summed up in one sentence - "I'm taking my ball and going home."

The actual membership of the Communist League is currently drafting a statement to give our version of events and we will post it soon.

Publish the new website, let me see what your direction and principles are, if I agree-- then I'll contact you.

What do you even mean by cenralization? If you mean miles was behind it all, I get that. But, really it seemed pretty decentralized, because no one knew who anyone was. Total animity.

communick is spot on.

As far as overcentralization, "Miles" still controlled the entire organization in practice. You say that no one knew who anyone was, but I think it's worth noting that as time went on, it became more and more evident that certain comrades (*glances at "Miles"*) had reason to hide their identities. "Miles"'s tight grip on the organization really became evident and things blew up when the League's membership began considering removing him from his position as editor... and possibly removing the position of editor altogether. More information will be released once the League finalizes a statement about Miles' split.

For now, the "new" website is really the same as the "old" website. It can be accessed via any of the following URLs:

http://comleague.org
http://communist-league.com
http://communist-league.net

It's just that "Miles" hijacked the "communistleague.org" URL.

Anyway, I think anyone who can read between the lines can easily see what "Miles" is trying to accomplish with his statement (which, by the way, is full of factual inaccuracies).

Exactly.

And if anyone is inclined to take Miles' antics seriously... just ask yourself what kind of member, after a month or so of playing "Second Life" instead of engaging in political activity, would suddenly decide to singlehandedly "reorganize" an organization that is supposed to function democratically?

I'm not going to repeat everything I wrote about it here...

But I do want to say that you can stay tuned to the CL's actual website -- not Miles' hijacked copy -- for updates:

http://comleague.org

Due to Miles's attempts to tear apart the organization, we're going through some tough times in the CL, but hopefully we can get comrades to support our attempts to turn the CL into a more democratic and action-oriented organization -- even those comrades who were put off from the League by the way "Miles" ran things in the past.

(I merged the two recent threads on the CL)

I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but I want to weigh in.

I'd hate to be patronizing here (seriously), but this is the sort of thing some of us in the FPM saw coming as we ceased our limited work with the CL. A lot of this is very similar to what happened then.

In our statement on that, we wrote (Keep in mind, that all our contacts were facilitated through 'Miles.'):

"One is the CL’s abuse of class definitions. It is normal practice for members of the CL to refer to any and all political opponents as petty bourgeois, regardless of their actual class background. We have personally witnessed this several times. Someone would raise a political criticism of the CL or the actions of one of its members only to be written off as petty bourgeois"

This can be seen in the statement out of Detroit which states "In the last months following the First Constitutional Convention of the League, however, a section of the membership, trained in the schools of petty-bourgeois socialism and still adhering to those methods and practices, have attempted to transform the League into a clone of those organizations," "We refuse to accept the transformation of the League from a proletarian communist organization into a petty-bourgeois socialist confessional sect," etc.

So, comrades who tried to push "Miles" out of his leadership position, which we can only assume were previously considered proletarian communists (as those are the only folks that are supposed to be in the organization to begin with), are now "petty-bourgeois socialists."

Petty-bourgeois socialism is a real trend, but comrades don't become a part of it because they move against one person, or group, inside an organization.

In our statement, we also wrote "We recognize that the CL contains a number of good, and dedicated comrades. We can only hope they are not turned off to politics forever by the treacherous acts of other members, and the bitter sectarianism of their leaders (who are famous for exactly that)..."

Something else we pointed out in our statement:

"We’ve already described the “clandestine” nature of the CL, which is one way it has isolated itself (and our experience in working with the CL suggests that the decision to be “clandestine” has more to do with hiding the political history of their founders from other workers and leftists than it does defending itself from attacks by the state)."

This first became clear at a picket in Detroit, when "Miles" told FPM comrades to refer to him by one name if members of a certain sect came around, and by another if others came.

There are sometimes reasons that folks need to use different names and such (for example, hiding from the state), but hiding from former comrades is not one of them.

Sort of like the things "Miles" wrote about the FPM, and some of its individual members?

I'm genuinely sorry that it took all of this for some comrades to see the reality of the Detroit clique (CLers should know who I'm talking about here).

Their political history speaks for itself (which is probably why they want to keep that a secret).

Funny that he really did that, while he previously (and falsely) accused us of hijacking the IWPA site.

Something else we mentioned in our statement: "The fact that so much of the CL’s work, and even its very existence, are so tied in with “cyberspace,” further demonstrates just how isolated from the class struggle they are. We are not opposed to utilizing the internet as an effective means of communication, but the CL seems to carry out internet work as an alternative to work in the “real world”...."

Again, this is funny to hear coming from a guy who trashed us for publicly criticizing CL comrades for sexism and anti-Semitism. In our statement, we wrote:

"It seems that more than a few members of the CL, at least among those who participate in political discussions and debates on the internet, have a tendency to make sexist and/or anti-Semitic comments (we base this on the fact that such things occurred more than a few times). It is the policy of the owners and moderators of most internet discussion boards to either warn persons who make such comments, or in some cases, revoke their ability to participate entirely. In a few of the cases in which members of the CL made sexist and/or anti-Semitic comments, members of our organization have publicly criticized them.

"Apparently, this seriously offended several members of the CL who, in a letter dated October 18, 2006, accused “certain comrades of the FPM” of “contribut[ing] to ... a campaign of provocation and baiting that has sought to turn contradictions in method into entrenched positions ... [making] the educational and corrective process
more difficult.”

I have to wonder if the "leading woman comrade" isn't the co-founder of the CL. It's not really important either way, if CL comrades don't want to say, but it just seems likely, knowing some of her history in different groups.

* * *

Bottom line, it's good to see some comrades being proactive here. Hopefully you don't have too many problems, and can get back to organizing.

Some FPM comrades with the SDTWM contingent ran into to some comrades handing out CL lit at the recent demo in DC, btw.. no sure who they were, just thought I would mention it.

Those DC comrades are not part of the Detroit clique, they are the opposite.

This I know.

The only people with the Detroit clique are Miles, Robin, and some inactive freak from Arizona.

I wish I would have known all of this before, CdL.

Nice to see that there is something that can unite the petty-bourgeois left -- hatred for workers seeking to organize themselves. Maybe if these left-wing poster boys (stress "boys") were less concerned about their own image and glory, they might have not found themselves outside of the League for violating the Rules they voted for only a month previous.

They can whine all they want about the fact that the veterans of the League decided to take their organization back. It won't stop us from holding the Reorganization Convention, publishing WPA and WR, recruiting the contacts we have, chartering the new Circles that are being organized, and moving forward.

The opportunists can hold hands with UFPJ, have their little love-in on stage and beg the ruling class to "stop the war" or "bring the troops home now (please?)". It fits them well.

I give these charlatans six months to a year before one of three things happens: they merge with another petty-bourgeois left group; they transform into a confessional sect; or, they blow apart due to incompetence and unprincipled combination. Then again, they could undergo a combination of these three things. Anyway, regardless of how it goes, it couldn't happen to a more deserving clique of agents provocateurs, snitches and gossip-mongers.

Miles

Forgive me, but what does 'second life' mean?

And if the CL has split, I am really sorry to hear it (no I am not being sarcastic); it is not easy to see my prediction come true that no organisation committed to DM can avoid fragmentation.

I wish it were otherwise.

Only the bosses can benefit from our quarrels and splits.

Miles:

It is really sad to see a working class revolutionary group split, especially in the USA!!.

I can only wish you all the best in rebuilding among other workers.

And, despite our differences, I am 100% sincere in that!

Can somebody explain the basic facts of what happened here without flinging insults at the other side?

Is it in anyway political?

Devrim

Second Life is some sort of virtual world where you can make your character and chat with other people.

Marmot, thanks for that!

However, I fail to see how this is relevant to the split.

Second Life is relevant because Miles has been spending all of his time playing in Second Life instead of doing real work for the League.

Recently, he said he was doing some inmportant work with Italian IBM workers. It turned out to be a "virtual" strike on Second Life!

This is all he has done in months.

This "split", if you can even call it that, is mainly based on the fact that Miles has been paralyzed by a fascination with "virtual" organizing and that he (and a couple of others) have been hiding behind clandestinity to obscure their past from the League membership. Everybody in Detroit knows Miles real name and his association with the Communist League. Only the League members themselves were denied the opportunity to check out Miles shady political past.

As for the allegations of sexism- Miles has admittedly been making his wife do all of the housework while he sits in front of the computer. He has now projected his own patriarchial ways onto the League as a whole by claiming that we wanted his wife to be housekeeper for the League. He is trying to blame us for his own fucked-upedness.

When the Communist League (that is the majority of the membership) publishes our version of events then everybody will know the deal. Miles is a professional sectarian with a long history of shadiness. The truth will be known by all.