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  #461  
Old 18th August 2008, 17:35
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Trivas:

Quote:
I deny you've produced evidence of the claims that Engels is an a priori dogmatist, and that the phrase 'dialectical contradicion' is devoid of meaning. You've merely dogmatically pronounced them such.
Yes, well we already know that you reject anything you cannot stomach, and are rather like those who dismiss Das Kapital but refuse to say why.

And yet, even though I have written countless pages of reasons (which you refuse to read), and have defended my ideas here with over 8,000 posts, and you have refused to defend your ideas, you have the cheek to call me 'dogmatic'.

Moreover, both you and Gil here refuse to tell us what the term 'dialectical contradiction' means, so it seems to be meaningless to you two, too.

Quote:
But I've not seen evidence that you agree with Marx and Engels re anything.
But, you refuse to read my Essays, so no wonder you haven't.

[My political statement contains a quote from Marx; so you are either blind or thick.]
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Enroll on the Dialectics Detox Program: http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/index.htm

Basic Introductory Essay: http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/Why%20I%20Oppose%20DM.htm

Also check out: http://www.leninology.blogspot.com/
  #462  
Old 18th August 2008, 18:42
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Originally Posted by Rosa Lichtenstein View Post
And yet, even though I have written countless pages of reasons (which you refuse to read), and have defended my ideas here with over 8,000 posts, and you have refused to defend your ideas, you have the cheek to call me 'dogmatic'.
Too bad verbosity isn't an argument, Rosa. I suspect pretty soon you'll be telling me that arguments settle anything.
Quote:
Moreover, both you and Gil here refuse to tell us what the term 'dialectical contradiction' means, so it seems to be meaningless to you two, too.
But I've already told what a dialectical contradiction is here. Too bad you didn't like the answer.
Quote:
But, you refuse to read my Essays, so no wonder you haven't.
I don't come here to be referred to another site. Why the obfuscation of your views that you ask me to read them elsewhere?
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[My political statement contains a quote from Marx; so you are either blind or thick.]
So quoting Marx means you agree with him?

You're either not an honest broker of your views or as gilhyle already noted, you argue for the sake of having your views prevail.
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  #463  
Old 18th August 2008, 19:11
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Duplicate post!
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Enroll on the Dialectics Detox Program: http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/index.htm

Basic Introductory Essay: http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/Why%20I%20Oppose%20DM.htm

Also check out: http://www.leninology.blogspot.com/

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  #464  
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Trivas:

Quote:
Too bad verbosity isn't an argument, Rosa. I suspect pretty soon you'll be telling me that arguments settle anything.
You are in no postition to judge since you refuse to read my work, work the length of which is dwarfed by that of Marx, and indeed that of Hegel, Lenin, Mao and Trotsky, taken severally or collectively.

The point is, that I can defend my ideas, you can't, and won't.

Quote:
But I've already told what a dialectical contradiction is here. Too bad you didn't like the answer.
Ok, so let's have a look:

Quote:
A dialectical contradiction indicates a fundamental contradiction between essential characteristics of a 'thing' manifested in a fundamental multi-leveled conflict between the opposing forces expressive of a thing's essential characteristics. By essential characteristics, I mean here such characteristics necessary to a thing's identity, without which it would not be itself but would be in fact be something else.

A dialectical contradiction, as I am defining it does not indicate a formal logical contradiction. It indicates an apparent formal logical contradiction. What does it mean to say this? It indicates a particular linkage of ontology with epistemology.[...] Here are two apparently contradictory propositions:

1) the production and dissemination of knowledge is an essential characteristic of all educational systems; and

2) the obfuscation of the production of knowledge and the restriction (and sometimes outright prevention) of the dissemination of knowledge is an essential characteristic of all education systems.

Are these two propositions contradictory in terms of formal logic? It depends rather precisely upon how they are formulated as such. But the meaning intended implies no such thing. Asserting that educational systems have knowledge production and dissemination as an essential feature says no more than that if they did not fulfill such functions to some degree they could not be said to be educational systems. The contrasting position is more contraversal and needs to be argued for [...] [O]n one level the contradiction is clear. I call this contradiction dialectical because it involves the essential primary defining characteristics of the institution. I call it dialectical because the contradiction manifests itself in the form of a conflict between structural forces that make the institution what it most fundamentally is. The conflict itself is an essential characteristic of the institution. This dialectical contradition is, however, itself, the expression of an even more general dialectical contradiction: the dialectical contradiction at the heart of the production of knowledge which arises from knowledge's imbrication with the power relations of inequality.
1) You did not tell me, you quoted someone else.

2) The above is as clear as mud.

3) The author says:

Quote:
A dialectical contradiction indicates a fundamental contradiction between essential characteristics of a 'thing' manifested in a fundamental multi-leveled conflict between the opposing forces expressive of a thing's essential characteristics. By essential characteristics, I mean here such characteristics necessary to a thing's identity, without which it would not be itself but would be in fact be something else.
The author relies on 'opposing forces' to help him explain this alleged 'contradiction'. But I have already shown that forces cannot be co-opted here. This is what I posted straight after your last attempt to quote the above passage, a post to which you did not reply (which suggests you couldn't, once more):

Quote:
Trivas, yes I have read this sort of stuff many times before, and comrades here have tried to define 'dialectical contradictions' in this way here before, too.

However, a conflict between forces cannot be called a 'contradiction'. I have devoted over 86,000 words to explaining why in Essay Eight Part Two. Here is a summary of that Essay (links explaining the techincal terms I have used have been ommited; they can be found in the original Essay; link at the end):

Quote:
The Gravity Of The Problem

In this Part of Essay Eight it is argued at length that there is no way that "contradictions" can be interpreted as "opposing forces", nor vice versa.

[DM = Dialectical Materialism.]

In fact, since most of the motion in the universe is governed by the action of only one central force (i.e., in classical Physics, the force of gravity which governs the motion of planets around stars, and stars around galactic centres of mass, etc.), classical DM cannot account for most of the bulk changes that take place in nature. Now, even if this phenomenon is regarded as the result of the complex inter-relation between gravitational fields, change in motion would still be caused by only one force: the resultant. No contradiction has just one term.

Of course, if General Relativity is correct (where gravity has been replaced by the motion of bodies along geodesics and world-lines, forces having been edited out of the picture) most of the bulk motion in the universe would take place under the action of no forces at all. This is underlined by Nobel laureate, Professor Wilczek (of MIT), who makes a more general point about forces in modern Physics:

Quote:
"The paradox deepens when we consider force from the perspective of modern physics. In fact, the concept of force is conspicuously absent from our most advanced formulations of the basic laws. It doesn't appear in Schrödinger's equation, or in any reasonable formulation of quantum field theory, or in the foundations of general relativity. Astute observers commented on this trend to eliminate force even before the emergence of relativity and quantum mechanics.

"In his 1895 Dynamics, the prominent physicist Peter G. Tait, who was a close friend and collaborator of Lord Kelvin and James Clerk Maxwell, wrote

"'In all methods and systems which involve the idea of force there is a leaven of artificiality...there is no necessity for the introduction of the word 'force' nor of the sense−suggested ideas on which it was originally based.'"
http://scitation.aip.org/journals/do..._10/11_1.shtml

[The above now appears in Wilczek (2006), pp.37-38.]

This is something that even dialecticians have admitted:

Quote:
"Gravity is not a 'force,' but a relation between real objects. To a man falling off a high building, it seems that the ground is 'rushing towards him.' From the standpoint of relativity, that observation is not wrong. Only if we adopt the mechanistic and one-sided concept of 'force' do we view this process as the earth's gravity pulling the man downwards, instead of seeing that it is precisely the interaction of two bodies upon each other." [Woods and Grant (1995), p.156.]
However, and despite what Woods and Grant say, a mere "relation" between two bodies is incapable of making one or both of them move, unless there is a force there (or something else consequent on that relation -- such as a time-based trajectory along a "world-line", perhaps?) to bring it about.

Naturally, all this means that most of the changes studied in Physics could not be the result of "contradictions" -- if, that is, the latter are still to be regarded as opposing forces.

Merely Figurative?

In view of the above, it might be wise to interpret "opposing forces" as figurative 'contradictions'. Alternatively, forces could be described as 'contradictions' as a part of a sort of shorthand, which would then enable the modelling of different types of accelerated motion. Naturally, that approach would allow the word "force" to be edited out of the picture as a physical entity in its own right. Indeed, Engels seems to have had this in mind in the quotation below, where he argues that attraction and repulsion should not be regarded as forces, but as simple forms of motion. This retreat was perhaps recommended to him by his admission that the concept "force" was derived from ancient animistic/mystical views of nature, hence its use in DM could smack of anthropomorphism:

Quote:
"When two bodies act on each other…they either attract each other or they repel each other…in short, the old polar opposites of attraction and repulsion…. It is expressly to be noted that attraction and repulsion are not regarded here as so-called 'forces', but as simple forms of motion.... [Engels (1954), pp.70-71. Bold emphasis added.]
Quote:
"The notion of force, however, owing to its origin from the action of the human organism on the external world…implies that only one part is active, the other part being passive…[and appearing] as a resistance." [Ibid., p.82. Bold emphasis added.]
However, this revision has two untoward consequences Engels appears not to have noticed:

(1) It makes his version of DM look even more positivistic that it already seems (at least in DN). If the appeal to forces in nature is no more than a shorthand for the relative motion of bodies, then forces will have no real counterparts in nature. The whole idea would then be little more than a "useful fiction", invented to account for the phenomena instrumentally. This would make the identification of forces with contradictions even more problematic; plainly, and once again: if there are no forces, there can be no DM-'contradictions'.

[DN = Dialectics of Nature, i.e., Engels (1954); UO = Unity of Opposites.]

(2) Given this re-write of the word "force", the contradictory relationship between bodies would become little more than a re-description of their relative motion. [Woods and Grant seem to be thinking along these lines, as we saw earlier.]

Anyway, the figurative reading of forces as 'contradictions' runs counter to the claim advanced by dialecticians that they are offering a literal and 'objective' account of nature. It is not at all easy to see how figurative language can fill in the physical gaps in an explanation, any more than, say, the following can account for Juliet's beauty:

Quote:
"But, soft! what light through yonder window breaks?
It is the east, and Juliet is the sun."

[Romeo and Juliet, Act Two, Scene Two.]
Or, at least, any more than would describing a man as a "pig" imply he has a curly tail and is a potential source of bacon.

Nevertheless, even if this proves to be an acceptable resolution of Engels's problem, it would still not provide DM-theorists with a viable way out of their difficulties. Taken literally or figuratively, the equation of DM-'contradictions' with forces cannot work -- whether this applies to events in nature or society. This is so for several reasons.

Contradictions As Mathematical Models?

The first of these is connected with the way that forces are already represented in mathematics and physics, for example --, which does not appear to be even remotely appropriate for exportation and use in depicting contradictions as literal forces. Consider the following:

(A) Forces often operate according to an inverse square law. It is not easy to see how the same could be true of contradictions. Not much sense can be made, one presumes(!), of the idea that a contradiction could operate with, say, only 25% of its former intensity (or whatever the appropriate descriptor is here) if the distance between its oppositional elements is doubled. Do bosses really become more conciliatory if workers walk away from them? Does wealth cause less conflict if the rich move their money to the Cayman Islands? Do appearances contradict reality any the more if someone uses a microscope, or presses his/her face against a desk? And yet, no force in nature has its local or remote strength unaffected by such changes.

Sure, dialecticians speak about the "contradictions" in the capitalist system "intensifying", but this is not because the 'separation distance' between the classes has decreased. Whatever DM-theorists in fact mean by "intensification" here (which seems be that the alleged "contradictions" become more obvious, intractable or crisis-ridden), they certainly do not mean it in the same way that physicists mean it when they talk about, say, the strength of a force field intensifying. Nor is there any mathematics involved. Indeed, while a technician might be dispatched to measure the intensity of a force field in genuine scientific research, no one ever seems to have been asked to do the same with these "intensifying" 'dialectical contradictions'. They (or at least their 'strength') appear to be permanently locked in subjective space, stubbornly impervious to scientific investigation.

(B) Forces in nature can be represented by vectors, the use of which is governed by well-understood rules. As such, for example, they may be inclined at various angles to one another, added, subtracted and multiplied (to give inner, vector or scalar triple products, and the like) -- and by means of which, diverse quantities, such as areas, volumes, field densities, boundary flux (etc.), may be calculated. In addition, vectors may be parallel or orthogonal, to one another, or to previously defined axes, just as they may be decomposed into their components and projected onto a given direction, plane or surface. They can be used to identify and classify the mathematical properties of manifolds. Unit vectors can be defined in a given vector space, providing it with a base and spanning set. Modulii can be ascertained for any given vector, and so-called "Eigenvectors" can be calculated. Furthermore, matrices can be employed to represent vectors more efficiently, their determinants and inverses thus calculated. The ordinary and partial derivatives of vectors may be derived -- and, finally, they can be integrated (as part of line, surface or volume integrals), and so on.

It is difficult to see how any of the above (and a many others) could be true of a single DM-'contradiction' interpreted (literally or metaphorically) as a force.

This brings us to the third reason for questioning the connection between forces and 'contradictions'.

Contradictory To What?

Let us assume that two forces (say, F1 and F2) 'contradict' one another. In that case, one of the following options would, it seems, have to obtain:

(1) F1 must prevent F2 from acting (and/or vice versa), or

(2) F1 must impede F2, perhaps stopping it from producing its usual effects (and/or vice versa).

[There is a third option: that these forces should "struggle" with one another; however, if that is to make sense, then it must be explicated in terms of one or both of the other two.]

In the first case, F2 must either:

(1a) Cease to exist, or

(1b) confront F1 directly (as force on force) while it exists -- if it is to be affected by F1, or if it is to be prevented from operating by it.

However, if in (1a), F2 ceases to exist, it cannot contradict or be contradicted by anything, since it no longer exists to do anything.

Assuming, on the other hand, that F2 is contradicted by F1 up until it ceases to exist, then option (1a) would become (1b).

In the latter case, therefore, the alleged contradiction between F1 and F2 must see these forces as directly oppositional in some way. If so, these two forces must confront one another as forces of attraction and/or repulsion (or as a 'dialectical' mix of the two).

But, once again, it is not easy to see how this configuration could be a contradiction in anything other than a figurative sense. [This is because a literal contradiction involves the gainsaying of the words of another person.]

If, on the other hand, a literal interpretation is still insisted upon here, this sort of confrontation between forces could only take place if they were particulate in some way -- that is, if they registered some sort of resistance to one another. Alternatively, if they are not particulate, it is equally hard to see how they could interact at all, let alone 'contradict' each other. Continuous media have no rigidity and no impenetrability to exert forces of any sort (except, of course, as part of a figurative extension to particulate interaction, after all).

Now, there are well-known classical problems associated with the idea that forces are particulate (these are fully referenced in Essay Eight Part One and Part Two) -- not the least of which is that if forces are particulate then they could only interact if they exerted still other forces (contact forces, cohesive forces, forces of reaction, etc.) on other particulates, initiating an infinite regress. That is, in order to account for the ability of particles to resist one another, we would need to appeal to forces internal to bodies to do that, to stop one body penetrating the other, or to prevent distortions tearing that body apart. But, if the forces internal to bodies are particulate too, we would plainly need further forces to account for the coherence of these new particles, and so on. Alternatively, if these forces are continuous, they would not be able to provide such inner coherence.

In the end nothing would be accounted for, since at each level there would be nothing to provide the required resistance/coherence.

So, reducing the interaction between forces to that between bodies means that particles could not 'contradict' one another without exerting non-particulate forces on their operands -- which would once again mean that such entities were incapable of exerting forces, having no rigidity to do so.

Even the exchange of particles (in QM) would succeed in exerting forces only if there were reaction forces internal to bodies which were themselves the result of rigidity, cohesion, contact, etc. Of course, Physicists appeal to various fields, energy gradients and the like, but if these are continuous, the above problems simply re-emerge. If these are particulate, this merry-go-round merely takes another spin around the metaphysical floor. [Some Physicists recognise this problem; many just ignore it.]

[QM = Quantum Mechanics.]

Of course, it could be objected that the above view adopts an out-dated mechanistic view of interaction, and hence is completely misguided. However, the 'modern' mathematical approach in fact surrenders any possibility of giving a causal, or physical account of forces --, or at least one that does not depend on a figurative use of verbs we employ in everyday life to give such an account in the macro-world. So, if a particle is seen as a 'carrier of a force', and that 'force' can be given no 'physical bite', but it is still regarded as being capable of making things happen, forcing particles to divert their line of action (etc.), then the words used must lose contact with those drawn from the vernacular -- such as: "make", "force", "divert" --, as they are used to depict macro-phenomena. Now there is no problem with this, but then such an account would become merely descriptive; it could not explain how fields actually make things happen. Differential equations and vectors cannot make things move, or alter their paths; they merely describe what does happen, as well as perhaps help us balance nature's books and make predictions. (More details on this can be found in the full Essay.)

If problems like these are put to one side for the moment, it would seem that forces could interact only by affecting the motion of bodies that are already under the control of other forces. In that case, (1b) would now reduce to the action of F1 on the effects of F2, or vice versa -- thus becoming option (2).

(1b) F2 must confront F1 directly (as force on force) while it exists -- if it is to be affected by F1, or if it is to be prevented from operating by it.

(2) F1 must impede F2, perhaps stopping it from producing its usual effects (and/or vice versa).

That being so, these forces would 'contradict' one another by preventing the normal effects of one or both of them from taking place. But, once more, if the latter are prevented from happening, they would not exist to be contradicted, and we would be back at square one.

If this set of inferences is rejected for some reason, then if F1 does indeed succeed in 'contradicting', say, the velocity of any body under the control of F2 (call this velocity V2), we would have a conflict between two unlike terms: F1 and V2. Clearly, given this scenario, the original contradiction between two forces will have disappeared to be replaced by a new relationship between a force and a velocity, which cannot by any stretch of the imagination be called "contradictory", partly because the operating force merely alters a velocity -- in many cases it might even augment it, or merely deflect it -- and partly because a force cannot 'struggle' with a mere change of place.

Nevertheless, for a force to alter the velocity of a body, the force would have to be particulate, too, meaning that inter-particulate forces would come into play once again. As already noted, continuous media have no inner coherence to alter anything -- save they are surreptitiously viewed as particulate, once more. This would then collapse this scenario back into option (1), with all its associated classical/figurative problems. Either way, the alleged contradiction here would evaporate for want of terms.

This criticism would still apply if the word "contradiction" were replaced by "conflict"; clearly, things cannot conflict if they don't exist, nor can they conflict with what they have prevented from taking place.

[And what exactly is the 'inner conflict' here that is supposed to make things move? A metaphysical motor of some sort? More on that in Essay Five.

It could be argued that the "conflict" in this case is precisely this: the fact that one forces prevents anther from acting. That option, and every one of its ramifications, is considered in detail in Essay Eight Part Two. Their consideration here will prevent this from being a mere summary!]

Also, the word "conflict" lacks the logical multiplicity that the word "contradiction" possesses. The whole point of using the word "contradiction" in DM was to emphasise the limitations of FL. This extension to the term is what allows dialecticians to argue that contradictory states of affairs and/or processes can exist simultaneously. That was the thrust of the DL-claims examined in Essay Four -- that "A and not A" could be true. In this case, "A" and "not A" are logically/dialectically connected. Now, if these expressions are propositional, ordinarily the truth of one would imply the falsehood of the other; however, their dialectical connection does not imply this in any straightforward sense -- indeed, it goes beyond this. This is what allows dialecticians to point to the superiority of DL over FL; their logic allows them to "grasp" such contradictions in order to make sense of change.

[FL = Formal Logic; DL = Dialectical Logic.]

If now the meaning of the word "conflict" is imported to work in place of "contradict", the aforementioned logical connection will be severed, and the alleged superiority of DL over FL would vanish, since no Formal Logician of any sense would deny that things can conflict -- nor indeed reject the claim that two propositions expressing conflict cannot both be true (or false) at once. [Indded, that would be tantamount to them admitting that "conflict" was not synonymous with "contradict".]

On the other hand, if the old FL-connections possessed by the word "contradiction" are exported and glued onto the word "conflict", then the meaning of the latter must change accordingly. In that case, this particular DM-thesis will have been made true solely as a result of mere linguistic tinkering, and that would mean that another DM-'fact' had been created by linguistic fiat, confirming DM's status as a form of LIE. Hence, in this case, from doctored language, superscientific 'truths' would have followed.

[LIE = Linguistic Idealism.]

And finally, since only agents are capable of conflicting, this term may be used literally only by those prepared to personalise nature.

[This topic is discussed at more length in the full version of Essay Eight Part Two. Also, see here, and here, where Hegel's logical blunders are exposed as the real source of these odd DL-claims.]

That might help explain why, as we saw earlier, Engels modified his ideas, declaring that:

Quote:
"It is expressly to be noted that attraction and repulsion are not regarded here as so-called 'forces', but as simple forms of motion." [Engels (1954), p.71.]
In other words it seems that forces should be regarded as "useful fictions". As noted above, Engels was aware of the anthropomorphic origin of the scientific concept of force. So, for once, his scientific intuitions seem to have been working correctly.

But, even if this were a viable option, it is not easy to see how on DM-grounds one form of motion could in fact 'contradict' another form of motion. Classically, if one body alters another's motion, it would have to exert a force on it, which would introduce the very things Engels tried to eliminate.

So, despite what Engels said, DM needs forces; it cannot do without them. It requires them to provide the dialectical 'connective tissue' (as it were) and the motive power of the universe; without them there would be nothing internal to bodies which would be able to connect their motion to that of others, and nothing to interlink processes in the "Totality". In their absence, DM would look little different from "crude materialism". Indeed, without forces, dialecticians could not even pretend to explain why anything moved or developed.

In that case, dialecticians cannot afford to take heed of this rare example of Engelsian good sense. And that is why, in discussion, they all ignore it.

On the other hand, if we acknowledge that forces do in fact exist -- that is, we accept that they are more than just the complex ways of speaking about the interaction of bodies (and thus if we reject Engels's advice) --, then the DM-account will still not work. This is because all such changes are in fact produced by a single resultant force operating in the system, not by two contradictory forces.

In that case, if nature must be populated with forces -- and if the present author is allowed for a moment to indulge in some insincere a priori Superscience of her own --, change would then be the result, not of struggle, but of the cooperation, unity and harmony between forces as they naturally combine to produce change (by means of this cooperatively formed resultant), helpfully assisting particles on their way. If so, we should rather raise an analogy here with logical tautologies -- not contradictions -- and argue alongside other ancient mystics (following the excellent precedent set by Hegel) that nature is indeed governed by forces of empathy, affection and love.

The conclusion seems quite plain: since resultant forces cause every change in nature (given the truth of the classical account), movement in general must be the result of dialectical tautologies. This new 'theory' at least has the advantage of being consistent with classical Physics, and every known observation. The same cannot be said of DM.

Naturally, those critical of the above (wholly insincere) flights-of-fancy would do well to turn an equally sceptical eye on the similarly suspect anthropomorphic moves made by dialecticians all the time.

Alternatively, if it is now argued that both of the 'contradicted' forces (i.e., F1 and F2) still exist even while they interact with one another to produce this resultant, change would then be the result of the operation of at least three forces (the original two and the resultant); that would, of course, create energy from nowhere.

[Needless to say, if this is so, there is a pressing need for revolutionaries to identify this 'third force' since (on this view) it appears to be the one that will put paid to Capitalism.]

In that case, it looks like that the word "force" -- as it is used in DM-propositions -- must be figurative, too. Hence, it now seems that DM can only be made to work if we adopt a poetic view of nature.

The Real Source Of This 'Theory'

On the other hand, if it should turn out that these forces are reminiscent of those found in mystical religious systems (which personify 'god', or which carry out 'His' orders (in ancient astronomy, these were the angels who supposedly pushed the planets about the place; in Newton's theory, they were an expression of the direct or indirect action of 'God'), etc.), then it would make eminent good sense to suppose they could 'contradict' one another (i.e., 'argue' among themselves).

It is no surprise, therefore, to find once again that this is precisely from where this 'dialectical' notion has been lifted. This we know for a fact. [On that, see Essay Fourteen (summary here).]

As such, and in this way, DM clearly represents the re-enchantment of nature and society.

Modern science banished will and intelligence from nature; DM has simply re-introduced them.

'Real' Contradictions?

It could be argued that the real value of 'Materialist Dialectics' lies in its capacity to help revolutionaries understand the contradictions in Capitalism, the better to help change the course of history.

But, it is difficult to picture any of these elements as opposites; the forces of production, it would seem, are no more the opposite of the relations of production than a diesel engine is the opposite of the person using it. And, as argued in detail in Essay Seven, these opposites do not turn into one another, as the dialectical prophets assured us they must. For example, when was the last time that the forces of production turned into the relations of production? Or the proletariat turned into the capitalist class?

Up until now DM-theorists have been more intent on merely asserting that forces are contradictory (seriously overusing this term) than they have been with providing any evidence or argument to show that they are -- or with clarifying what it could possibly mean to assert that they are. Once again, it is clear that DM-theorists have been quite happy to derive yet more a priori Superscience from a set of inappropriate concepts and dubious analogies, compounded by a poetic view of the assorted antics of ancient mystical intelligences, all subsequently confused with a precise logical principle.

Standard examples DM-theorists regularly wheel-out to illustrate the analogy between forces and contradictions are considered in detail in Essay Seven and shown to be misconceived. For instance, the alleged UO between the north and south poles of a magnet (or even that between positive and negative electrical charges) fails to illustrate the opposition between attractive and repulsive forces. In a magnet, two north poles, or two south poles (i.e., two likes), repel -- whereas two opposites (a north and a south pole), attract. So, if anything here, non-opposites 'contradict' (i.e., 'conflict' -- two Norths or two Souths repel each other), while actual opposites do not (North and South attract). Instead of struggle between opposites here we see harmony once more, confirming that change is indeed the result of those aforementioned 'internal tautologies'.

[UO = Unity of Opposites.]

Finally, several examples of "real material forces" supposedly at work in Capitalism are considered in detail in Essay Eight Part Two (more on that in the next post). Under close scrutiny none of them turn out to be contradictions in any meaningful sense of the term. In fact, they all turn out to be one or more of the following: discursive paradoxes, unexpected events, complex inter-relationships, injustices, irrationalities, contraries and/or mistakes.

Of course, if DM-theorists intend the word "contradiction" to be taken in a special sense, all well and good (but see below); however, to date, they have signally failed to say clearly what this 'special' sense is. Or, perhaps more accurately, they have in fact sought to equate it with "conflict", which verbal 'solution' does at least have the advantage of making overt the covert animism in DM -- for only if inanimate matter were sentient or intelligent could it enter into conflict with itself (internally), or with anything else (externally).

As will be argued in detail in Essay Twelve (summary here), the tendency to see conflict in linguistic, moral or conceptual terms (in traditional thought) was a direct consequence of the way that leisure-dominated Greek Philosophers fetishised both language and the natural world, populating it with surrogate discursive terms to give sense to their own mode of being (i.e., issuing orders to minions and framing laws to run society, mirroring the laws of 'God', etc.). No surprise, therefore, to see this traditional view reappear in DM.

As Marx said, the ruling ideas always rule.

On the other hand, if DM-theorists aim to re-define the word "contradiction" as "conflict" then their theory would merely be a form of stipulative conventionalism -- since there is nothing in the meaning of either the everyday word "contradiction", or in its logical twin, that remotely suggests such a connotation; nor is there vice versa with "conflict".

In that case, it is now clear that this word has been re-defined just to make dialectics work. But, we should be no more convinced of the acceptability of that manoeuvre than we would be if, say, an apologist of Capitalism 'defined' it as "natural" and "beneficial to all". If the re-definition of terms provided a "royal road" to truth, those with the best dictionaries would surely win Noble Prizes.

To be sure, one online dictionary says the following sort of thing:

Quote:
"contradiction, n 1: opposition between two conflicting forces or ideas..."
However, it is worth recalling that dictionaries are repositories of usage, and are neither normative nor prescriptive. Indeed, they 'define' many things dialecticians would disagree with. For example:

Quote:
"God: A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.

The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.

An image of a supernatural being; an idol.

One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god...."
And:

Quote:
"negation n 1: a negative statement; a statement that is a refusal or denial of some other statement 2: the speech act of negating 3: (logic) a proposition that is true if and only if another proposition is false."
No mention here of "sublation", or of the NON, but does that force dialecticians into accepting this 'definition'? Of course not; they pick and choose when it suits them.

[NON = Negation of the Negation.]

In that case, dictionaries record ideology as much as they record use or meaning. Here, the writers of this dictionary have clearly recorded the animistic use of this word as employed by mystical dialecticians. [In fact, The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary does not mention opposing forces in its definition of "contradiction".]

As the above shows, since no literal sense can be made of the equation of forces and contradictions, dialecticians should not believe everything they read in dictionaries.
Engels, F. (1954), Dialectics Of Nature (Progress Publishers).

Wilczek, F. (2006), Fantastic Realities. 49 Mind Journeys And A Trip To Stockholm (World Scientific).

Woods, A., and Grant, T. (1995), Reason In Revolt. Marxism And Modern Science (Wellred Publications).

From here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rosa.l/...ht-Part-02.htm
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...&postcount=360

More to come
__________________
Hegelism is like a mental disease -- you cannot know what it is until you get it, and then you can't know because you have got it -- Max Eastman.

Enroll on the Dialectics Detox Program: http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/index.htm

Basic Introductory Essay: http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/Why%20I%20Oppose%20DM.htm

Also check out: http://www.leninology.blogspot.com/
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And you ignored this:

Quote:
Here is just one section of Essay Eight Part Two that deals with the alleged 'contradictions' in Das Kapital (even though we know that Marx was merely 'coquetting' with this word) -- I have added several links that explain technical terms, but cannot add them all -- they can be found in the orignal Essay; use the 'Quick Links' to go to section '(9) Contradictions In Das Kapital?':

Quote:
However, Scott Meikle argues that there is indeed some sort of sense to be made of this. Meikle's case revolves around a short and relatively clear account of the alleged 'contradiction' between use-value and exchange-value, or more pointedly, between the "relative form" and the "equivalent form" of value, which Marx discusses in Chapter One, Volume One, of Das Kapital.

Now I do not want to enter into whether or not Meikle's interpretation of Marx is accurate; my concern is merely to see if his analysis can show us how and why these are indeed good examples of "dialectical contradictions". Here is what he says:

Quote:
"All the contradictions of capitalist commodity-production have at their heart the contradiction between use-value and exchange-value. Marx reveals this contradiction to lie at the heart of the commodity-form as such, even in its simplest and most primitive form....

"The simple form of value itself contains the polar opposition between, and the union of, use-value and exchange-value.... [Marx writes that] 'the relative form of value and the equivalent form are two inseparable moments, which belong to and mutually condition each other...but at the same time they are mutually exclusive and opposed extremes.' Concerning the first he observes that the value of linen cannot be expressed in linen; 20 yards of linen = 20 yards of linen is not an expression of value. 'The value of linen can therefore only be expressed relatively, that is in another commodity. The relative form of the value of the linen therefore presupposes that some other commodity confronts it in the equivalent form.' Concerning the second: 'on the other hand, this other commodity which figures as the equivalent, cannot simultaneously be in the relative form of value... The same commodity cannot, therefore, simultaneously appear in both forms in the same expression of value. These forms rather exclude each other as polar opposites.'

"This polar opposition within the simple form is an 'internal opposition' which as yet remains hidden within the individual commodity in its simple form: 'The internal opposition between use-value and exchange-value, hidden within the commodity, is therefore represented on the surface by an external opposition,' that is the relation between two commodities such that one (the equivalent form) counts only as a use-value, while the other (the relative form) counts only as an exchange-value. 'Hence, the simple form of value of the commodity is the simple form of the opposition between use-value and value which is contained in the commodity.'" [Meikle (1979), pp.16-17.]
[LOI = Law Of Identity.]

But, what evidence and/or argument is there to show that that these are indeed "polar opposites", let alone 'dialectically-united' opposites? And why call this a "contradiction"? We have already seen that this way of talking is based solely on Hegel's own egregious misconstrual of the LOI. So, what has Meikle to offer that stands some chance of repairing this tattered 'theory'?

Apparently, only this:

Quote:
"Marx's absolutely fundamental (Hegelian) idea [is] that the two poles united in an opposition necessitate one another ('belong to and mutually condition each other').... [Ibid., p.19.]
But, what precisely is the source of this necessitation? Well, after a brief discussion of Quine's ill-considered views on logical 'necessity' (which analysis confuses the latter notion with extremely well-confirmed empirical truths), Meikle rejects the idea that the source of this 'necessity' can be found in logic.

Quote:
"So, 'logical necessity' does not promise to account for the necessity that unites opposites within a contradiction. The unity of use-value and exchange-value within the commodity is certainly not something which, despite all necessitation between the two poles, may be abrogated (on Quine's conventionalist account). Not, that is, without 'abrogating' the commodity itself; for the commodity is precisely the unity of use-value and exchange-value. Use-value can exist alone. But exchange-value cannot; it presupposes use-value because only what has use-value can have exchange-value. What has exchange-value, a commodity, is, thus, necessarily use-value and exchange-value brought into a unity. The commodity-form of the product of labour has as its essence the unity of the two. That is what it is. Their conjunction or unity constitutes its essence." [Ibid., p.22.]
But, why is this not just a de dicto (i.e., a merely verbal) necessity?

Fortunately, Meikle has that particular base covered:

Quote:
"Use-value and exchange-value are, therefore, not 'merely' abstractions arrived at in thought about reality; they are constituents of reality in partaking in the essence of the commodity. And the opposition or contradiction between the two poles is a constituent of reality also, (although in the simple commodity or value-form it appears only primitively in the fact that the same commodity cannot act simultaneously as relative and as equivalent form of value)." [Ibid., p.22.]
And yet, whatever else is true of these value-forms, how can they 'contradict' one another if one of them cannot exist at the same time as the other? If these items "mutually exclude" one another, how can they both exist at the same time? On the other hand, if they both exist at the same time, so that they can indeed 'contradict' one another, how can one possibly "mutually exclude" the other?

[We have already seen that it is this insurmountable barrier that stymies earlier attempts to make this sort of depiction of 'dialectical contradictions' work.]

Putting this serious problem to one side, why is 'necessity' not merely a spin-off of a determination to use a few words in a certain way? Why is this not just a de dicto necessity?

[Indeed, it is rather cheeky of Meikle to use Quine to criticise logical necessity, when Quine himself would have taken an even dimmer view of such de re (real world) necessities. (On Quine's ideas, see the references listed at the end of this Note).]

Of course, this has become a hot topic ever since Saul Kripke upset the de dicto apple cart a generation or so ago. [Kripke (1977, 1980).] And it is thus no surprise to see Meikle appeal to Kripke's work to argue that these are not merely de dicto, but are in fact de re necessities.

Unfortunately, however, Kripke's arguments are not quite as sound as Meikle appears to believe. [On this see, Ebersole (1982) and (Hallett (1991), Hanna and Harrison (2004), pp.278-88. More on this in a later Essay.]

[Added: a de dicto necessity is one that arises solely in language. It is often contrasted with a de re necessity, that is one which supposedly exists in reality and not just in language.]

Nevertheless, in support, Meikle quotes a (by now) hackneyed series of examples:

Quote:
"The commodity is the unity of use-value and exchange-value, in precisely the same way that water is H2O, that light is a stream of photons, and that Gold is the element with atomic number 79. All these statements are necessarily true. They state truths that are true of necessity, not in virtue of any logical or 'conceptual' connexions, but in virtue of the essences or real natures of the entities in question. Water is necessarily H2O. Anything that is not H2O cannot be water..., and the 'cannot' is ontological not epistemic.... We did not always know this, of course; it was a discovery people made about the essence of water (and one which may need to be recast if future theoretical development requires it)." [Ibid., pp.22-23.]
The Gold example is not too clever, since its atomic number depends on our counting system, and neither is the light example all that convincing (since there are scientists who question the existence of photons). The water example is no less fraught, since water is not even contingently H2O; hydrogen bonding means its structure is far more complex. [On this and other examples, see VandeWall (2006). See also Hacker (2007), pp.29-56.]

It could be argued that Meikle had this base covered too, for he added:

Quote:
"[I]t was a discovery people made about the essence of water (and one which may need to be recast if future theoretical development requires it)." [Ibid.]
But, that just makes this an epistemic truth, and not the least bit "essential", or "ontological".

However, we will for the moment assume that these 'difficulties' can in some way be neutralised (although, in an Essay on the nature of science, to be published at this site in 2008, we will see that this is not the case; there it will be shown that modern-day Essentialism is a fundamentally flawed 'research' dead end).

Naturally, this view also faces the serious objections I have raised against this way of seeing the world, explored at length in Essay Twelve Part One.

Meikle also ignores the fact that the sort of essentialism he lionises depends on Possible World Semantics [PWS] in order to work. Sure he tries to damp this down somewhat (on pp.23-25), but all he succeeds in doing is undermining the case he has built-up for accepting his brand of essentialism in the first place -- for PWS merely turns de re necessities into super-duper empirical extensional truths, and de re simply de sappears.

This 'difficulty' will also be put to one side for the present.

[However, readers should also consult this paper, which outlines several serious objections to modern-day essentialism, but with a warning that the author then proceeds to defend an Aristotelian version of the same theory. These issues will also be tackled later.]

In addition, I will not be asking (here) other awkward questions about the precise origin of these allegedly natural necessities, and how they can possibly cause change, but the following passage (taken from Part One of this Essay) will give the reader some idea of how I will be tackling that topic at a later stage:

Quote:
A quotation from Baker and Hacker (1988) underlines the futility of this "aristocratic" approach to knowledge (although they do not use that particular word, and are not making this particular political point) -- which, incidentally, also reveals why dialecticians (like Rees, and the others quoted here) have become fixated on a search for a metaphysical (and ultimate/rational) "why" of things:

Quote:
"Empirical, contingent truths have always struck philosophers as being, in some sense, ultimately unintelligible. It is not that none can be known with certainty…; nor is it that some cannot be explained…. Rather is it that all explanation of empirical truths rests ultimately on brute contingency -- that is how the world is! Where science comes to rest in explaining empirical facts varies from epoch to epoch, but it is in the nature of empirical explanation that it will hit the bedrock of contingency somewhere, e.g., in atomic theory in the nineteenth century or in quantum mechanics today. One feature that explains philosophers' fascination with truths of Reason is that they seem, in a deep sense, to be fully intelligible. To understand a necessary proposition is to see why things must be so, it is to gain an insight into the nature of things and to apprehend not only how things are, but also why they cannot be otherwise. It is striking how pervasive visual metaphors are in philosophical discussions of these issues. We see the universal in the particular (by Aristotelian intuitive induction); by the Light of Reason we see the essential relations of Simple Natures; mathematical truths are apprehended by Intellectual Intuition, or by a priori insight. Yet instead of examining the use of these arresting pictures or metaphors to determine their aptness as pictures, we build upon them mythological structures.

"We think of necessary propositions as being true or false, as objective and independent of our minds or will. We conceive of them as being about various entities, about numbers even about extraordinary numbers that the mind seems barely able to grasp…, or about universals, such as colours, shapes, tones; or about logical entities, such as the truth-functions or (in Frege's case) the truth-values. We naturally think of necessary propositions as describing the features of these entities, their essential characteristics. So we take mathematical propositions to describe mathematical objects…. Hence investigation into the domain of necessary propositions is conceived as a process of discovery. Empirical scientists make discoveries about the empirical domain, uncovering contingent truths; metaphysicians, logicians and mathematicians appear to make discoveries of necessary truths about a supra-empirical domain (a 'third realm'). Mathematics seems to be the 'natural history of mathematical objects' [Wittgenstein (1978), p.137], 'the physics of numbers' [Wittgenstein (1976), p.138; however these authors have recorded this erroneously as p.139, RL] or the 'mineralogy of numbers' [Wittgenstein (1978), p.229]. The mathematician, e.g., Pascal, admires the beauty of a theorem as though it were a kind of crystal. Numbers seem to him to have wonderful properties; it is as if he were confronting a beautiful natural phenomenon [Wittgenstein (1998), p.47; again, these authors have recorded this erroneously as p.41, RL]. Logic seems to investigate the laws governing logical objects…. Metaphysics looks as if it is a description of the essential structure of the world. Hence we think that a reality corresponds to our (true) necessary propositions. Our logic is correct because it corresponds to the laws of logic….

"In our eagerness to ensure the objectivity of truths of reason, their sempiternality and mind-independence, we slowly but surely transform them into truths that are no less 'brutish' than empirical, contingent truths. Why must red exclude being green? To be told that this is the essential nature of red and green merely reiterates the brutish necessity. A proof in arithmetic or geometry seems to provide an explanation, but ultimately the structure of proofs rests on axioms. Their truth is held to be self-evident, something we apprehend by means of our faculty of intuition; we must simply see that they are necessarily true…. We may analyse such ultimate truths into their constituent 'indefinables'. Yet if 'the discussion of indefinables…is the endeavour to see clearly, and to make others see clearly, the entities concerned, in order that the mind may have that kind of acquaintance with them which it has with redness or the taste of a pineapple' [Russell (1937), p.xv; again these authors have recorded this erroneously as p.v, RL], then the mere intellectual vision does not penetrate the logical or metaphysical that to the why or wherefore…. For if we construe necessary propositions as truths about logical, mathematical or metaphysical entities which describe their essential properties, then, of course, the final products of our analyses will be as impenetrable to reason as the final products of physical theorising, such as Planck's constant." [Baker and Hacker (1988), pp.273-75. Referencing conventions in the original have been altered to conform to those adopted here.]
As should now be clear from all that has gone before, DM-theorists have bought into this view of 'necessary truths' (even if few of them use that particular phrase, although Lenin and Dietzgen seem to have been rather fond of it).

For example, dialecticians in general regard change as the result of the relation between internally-linked opposite (logical?) properties of objects and processes. But, why this should cause change is simply left entirely unexamined (indeed, it is left as a brute fact, as the above passage suggests it must); in reality this account of change is a consequence merely of a certain way of describing things (and a fetishised way, at that), as we will see.

Nevertheless, as we have already seen, there is no reason why contradictory states of affairs should cause change any more than there is a reason to suppose that non-contradictory states should. Both of these options rely on descriptions of the alleged relations between objects and processes (not on evidence since (as we saw earlier) it is not possible materially to verify their existence); they supposedly capture or picture processes in nature that are held to make other objects or processes alter/'develop'....

Moreover, the infinite regress (or "bad infinity") dialecticians hoped to avoid by appealing to 'internal contradictions' now simply reappears elsewhere in their theory. When it is fleshed-out, this theory just relates objects and processes to yet more objects and processes, as well as to 'negations', 'opposites', and 'interpenetrations', and the like (i.e., just more "brute facts").
But, despite this, how does Meikle tackle the problem of change?

Quote:
"The poles of an opposition are not just united. They also repel one another. They are brought together in a unity, but within that unity they are in tension. The real historical existence of the product of labour in the commodity-form provides an analogue of the centripetal force that contains the centrifugal forces of the mutual repulsion of use-value and exchange-value within it." [Ibid., p.26.]
There are so many metaphors in this passage, it is not easy to make sense of it. Nevertheless, it is reasonably clear that Meikle has reified the products of social relations (use- and exchange-values, etc.), and in this reified state they become the actual agents, with human beings (or, perhaps, commodities themselves) the patients. How else are we to understand the word "repel" here? Do they actually repel each other (like magnets, or electrical charges), or do we do this?

And do these "opposites" show any sign of turning into one another, as the DM-worthies assured us they must?

Furthermore, how can the forms that underpin use- and exchange-value (i.e., equivalent and relative form) provide an analogue of the forces Meikle mentions? If forces are to act on other forces, or other bodies, they need to fulfil a handful of crucial conditions first, the most important of which is to have the decency to exist. But, we were told these two forms can't co-exist. How then can they repel (or provide the wherewithal for other objects and processes to repel) anything?

This, of course, is the unforgiving rock upon which we have seen all such idealist speculations founder.

It could be argued that these 'repulsions' occur in our thought about the simple commodity form. But even there, they cannot exist together, for if they could, they would not 'mutually exclude' one another!

Or, are we to imagine there is a tussle taking place in our heads, such that, when we think of the one, it elbows out of the way (out of existence?) the other? Perhaps then, depending on circumstances, equivalent form can be declared the winner over relative form by two falls to a submission (UK rules)?



Figure Two: Equivalent Form Slam Dunks Relative Form In A Skull Near You

Furthermore, even if they could exist together in thought, this will not help, since it would make a mess of Meikle's appeal to de re necessities. This retreat into the ideal would leave him with a few seriously undernourished de dicto 'skeletons' to bounce around inside his head.

But, perhaps there is a way out of this bottomless pit of meticulously-constructed confusion? Meikle continues:

Quote:
"But in its simple form, the commodity is an unstable equilibrium. It is pregnant with possibilities, which history may present either with the conditions for the realisation of these possibilities, or with the indefinite variety of conditions that will frustrate their realisation. Given the right conditions, the embryo will develop its potentiality; and the simple form of value will undergo the metamorphoses that will take the commodity from its embryo through infancy to early adolescence with the attainment of the universal form of value, money." [Ibid., p.26.]
It now seems that metaphor is all Meikle has to hand in his bid to make this mystical process the least bit comprehensible. And it is quite clear where all this reification has led him: the commodity itself invented money, not human beings!

Or, perhaps, the commodity mesmerised human beings into inventing money.

Once more, on this view, we are the patients, while these metaphorical beings are the real agents of social change!

[Independently of this, we have already seen that this view of change cannot work. On that see, Essay Seven Part One.]

Is there then any way of re-configuring this overall theory of change that is capable of extracting it from the materialist shredder before the switch is thrown? Well, Meikle turns to Aristotle for assistance, but before he does that completely, he in effect concedes the truth of the above observation, for it seems that these value forms do indeed force humans to do their bidding:

Quote:
"This line of development is not accidental or fortuitous; it is not a process of aggregating contingent and extraneous additions. It is, rather, process of development of the potentialities within, and the increasing differentiation of, an original whole. If history does not block the growth of exchange activity, then that growth will find out the inadequacy of the simple form of value. Then, looked at from the point of view of efficient causation, those engaged in that activity, being rational and inventive in the face of the problems thrown up by their developing class interests, will act so as to solve their practical difficulties by measures that overcome that insufficiency to the requirements of their developing commerce. The solution to their practical problems is the money-form." [Ibid., pp.26-27.]
Now, this either means that those involved in the invention of money were the sad puppets of those ('selfish'?) value forms, or they had a clear understanding of the nature of use- and exchange-value, and equal to that of Marx (but two and a half thousand years earlier), so that they could make the correct/rational choices.

Otherwise, how could those value forms exercise any sort of causal input here?

But, doesn't this make dangerous concessions to teleology, to final causation? No problem; Meikle tackles this unexpected difficulty head-on:

Quote:
"Looked at from the point of view of final causation, money is the final cause of this phase of social development. This is not to say that final causation is a form of efficient causation in which the future acts on the past, such that the developed form beckons from the future to the past less developed form; rather, the embryonic entity has a structure that develops, if it develops, along a certain line. Thus, final causation and efficient causation, here, are not mutually exclusive but mutually supportive: the one explaining the emergence of the other, and the other the success and development of the one. What we have here is a development that, barring accidents, will take its course -- an evolution that is necessary; its final form immanent as a potentiality within its original one." [Ibid., p.27.]
But, this solves nothing, for it seems to mean that some sort of plan or program must have been written into these value forms that determines how they should develop, rather like a fertilised egg or seed has a genetic code that we are told does likewise -- which suspicion is amply confirmed by Meikle's frequent use of embryonic language.

[That, of course, implicates this view of things with a clutch of ancient mystical ideas connected with belief in the Cosmic or Orphic Egg (a topic briefly mentioned in Part One of this Essay, and again in Essay Eleven Parts One and Two, but more fully in Essay Fourteen Part One.]

But, perhaps this is once again too quick, for Meikle now introduces the aforementioned Aristotelian ideas in order to neutralise this problem:

Quote:
"The necessity that Marx sees in the line of development of the value-form is that which Aristotle contrasts with events that are 'accidental' and it is bound up with organic systems and Aristotle's conception of ousia. Where there is constant reproduction there is a whole system, an ousia." [Ibid., p.27]
Meikle then quotes Stephen Clark:

Quote:
"[E]verything that happens phusei, 'by nature', happens always or for the most part, but nothing that happens apo tuches, by 'chance', or apo tautomatou, 'just of itself', happens thus frequently. Therefore, no natural events are thus purely accidental, and therefore all natural events are non-accidental. But all non-accidental events are heneka tou, 'serve some purpose', are given sense by their ends.... The fact that rain is always being produced makes it impossible to doubt that there is an organic system here, and such systems are 'finalistically' identified. To answer the question 'what is it?' we must reply in terms of its natural line of development...genesis, the process of coming-to-be-, is what it is because ousia is what it is, and not vice versa." [Clark (1975), pp.60-61, quoted in Meikle (1979), pp.27-28.]
Once more, this fails to solve the problem, for the necessities pictured here work only if one is prepared to anthropomorphise nature. This is because, as soon as it is asked why events cannot do otherwise (than they in fact do), it becomes obvious that certain events must exercise some sort of control over others, directing then along the right "line" (which is why Meikle found he had to use that phrase). This is quite clearly the point too of all that talk about "ends" and "purposes" in Aristotle -- which were part of an openly religious doctrine that Meikle just ignores, and which only works if nature is controlled by some 'Mind' or other.

Hence, it is worth noting that dialecticians can only make their 'theory' seem to work if they adopt and/or copy the a priori thought-forms of ruling-class thinkers (Aristotle (alongside Plato) is in fact one of the two most important figures, here). Meikle firmly nails his colours to this particular mystical mast; for Aristotle, if nature has a purpose, then the status quo must be in harmony with it, and thus cannot legitimately be challenged. In that case, the rule of the elite is not 'accidental', but serves some 'end'. [The reader will no doubt now appreciate more fully why I asserted this back in Essay Two.]

[This topic was discussed at length in Essay Three Part Two, and the reader is referred there for more details. It will also be covered in Essay Three Part Five, as well as in an Additional Essay on 'mind and cognition', to be published in 2008. The theoretical background to all this will be outlined in Essay Twelve Parts Two and Three (summary here).]

Of course, Meikle would have done well to have noted that Marx warned his readers not to take this use of Hegelian jargon seriously:

Quote:
"...[A]nd even, here and there in the chapter on the theory of value, coquetted with the mode of expression peculiar to him." [Marx (1976), p.103. Bold emphasis added.]
More on that here.

Now, there are far better ways of making Das Kapital comprehensible; we do not need to appeal to mystical Hegelian and/or Aristotelian concepts to make it work. [I will, however, leave that task to another time.]

In which case, it is still far from clear what Meikle thinks these "dialectical contradictions" are, or how they can make anything change --, unless, that is, we are prepared to anthropomorphise nature and society, and read human traits into inanimate objects and processes.

[On Quine, see Arrington and Glock (1996), Glock (2003), Hacker (1996), pp.189-227. See also this PDF (which is an essay on Quine, by Hacker).]
References will be listed in my next post.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...&postcount=361
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  #466  
Old 18th August 2008, 19:13
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Quote:
Arrington, R., and Glock, H-J. (1996) (eds.), Wittgenstein And Quine (Routledge).

Baker, G., and Hacker, P. (1988), Wittgenstein. Rules, Grammar And Necessity Volume Two (Blackwell, 2nd ed.).

Bicchieri, C., and Alexander, J. (2006), (eds.), PSA 06 (University of Chicago Press).

[PSA 06 is the Philosophy of Science Supplement for 2006.]

Clark, S. (1975), Aristotle's Man: Speculations Upon Aristotelian Anthropology (Oxford University Press).

Ebersole, F. (1982), 'Stalking The Rigid Designator', Philosophical Investigations 5, pp.247-66; reprinted in Ebersole (2002), pp.301-23, as 'Proper Names And Other Names'.

--------, (2002), Meaning And Saying (Xlibris Corporation, 2nd ed.).

Glock, H-J. (2003), Quine And Davidson On Language, Thought And Reality (Cambridge University Press).

Hallett, G. (1991), Essentialism: A Wittgensteinian Critique (State University of New York Press).

Hanna, P., and Harrison, B. (2004), Word And World. Practice And The Foundations Of Language (Cambridge University Press).

Hacker, P. (1996), Wittgenstein's Place In Twentieth Century Analytic Philosophy (Blackwell).

-------- (2007), Human Nature, The Categorial Framework (Blackwell).

Kripke, S. (1977), 'Identity And Necessity', in Schwartz (1977), pp.66-101.

--------, (1980), Naming And Necessity (Blackwell).

Marx, K. (1976), Capital, Volume One (Penguin Books).

Meikle, S. (1979), 'Dialectical Contradiction And Necessity', in Mepham and Ruben (1979), pp.5-33.

Mepham, J., and Ruben, D-H. (1979), (eds.), Issues In Marxist Philosophy, Volume One: Dialectics And Method (Harvester Press).

Russell, B. (1937), The Principles Of Mathematics (George Allen & Unwin, 2nd ed.).

Schwartz, P. (1977) (ed.), Naming Necessity And Natural Kinds (Cornell University Press).

VandeWall, H. (2006), 'Why Water Is Not H2O, And Other Critiques Of Essentialist Ontology From The Philosophy Of Chemistry', in Bicchieri and Alexander (2006), pp.906-19.

Wittgenstein, L. (1976), Wittgenstein's Lectures On The Foundation Of Mathematics: Cambridge 1939, edited by Cora Diamond (Harvester Press).

--------, (1978), Remarks On The Foundations Of Mathematics, edited by Elizabeth Anscombe (Blackwell, 3rd ed.).

--------, (1998), Culture And Value, edited by G. H. von Wright (Blackwell, 2nd ed.).
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...&postcount=362
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  #467  
Old 18th August 2008, 19:17
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Trivas:

Quote:
I don't come here to be referred to another site. Why the obfuscation of your views that you ask me to read them elsewhere?
1) You ignore the things I say here, too. Indeed, you ignored the above posts.

1) You are quite happy to refer us to other sites yourself, so this is a lame excuse on your part.

3) You are also quite happy to comment on my work from a position of total ignorance.

You will be pontificating about brain surgery next.

Quote:
So quoting Marx means you agree with him?
In my case, yes.

Quote:
You're either not an honest broker of your views or as gilhyle already noted, you argue for the sake of having your views prevail.
Gil missed out one option: I argue and then my views prevail, since I am more committed to my ideas than you or Gil are to yours, plus I can defend them in depth, you can only repeat failed old dogmas.
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  #468  
Old 18th August 2008, 20:44
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Originally Posted by Rosa Lichtenstein View Post
Gil missed out one option: I argue and then my views prevail, since I am more committed to my ideas than you or Gil are to yours, plus I can defend them in depth, you can only repeat failed old dogmas.
I see, it's commitment to ideas that wins arguments for you. Too bad that when challenged others find your defenses less than stellar. Fine, this attitude is totally consistent with the belief that arguments settle nothing.
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  #469  
Old 18th August 2008, 21:16
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Trivas:

Quote:
I see, it's commitment to ideas that wins arguments for you. Too bad that when challenged others find your defenses less than stellar. Fine, this attitude is totally consistent with the belief that arguments settle nothing.
I see once again you can't defend your ideas against my refutation of them. Shows how 'committed' you are to them -- and how dogmatic you are in accepting such gobbledygook on faith alone.

And, as we have seen from Gil, he/she is nearly as keen to avoid answering my arguments as you are.

So: We still do not know what a 'dialectical contradiction' is -- or if we do, then we also know they cannot exist, and so cannot change anything.
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  #470  
Old 18th August 2008, 23:48
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Originally Posted by Rosa Lichtenstein View Post
I see once again you can't defend your ideas against my refutation of them. Shows how 'committed' you are to them -- and how dogmatic you are in accepting such gobbledygook on faith alone.
But I have no ideas I'm trying to defend. You should be grateful that argument settles nothing, your arguments thus remain unimpeachable.
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  #471  
Old 18th August 2008, 23:50
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Trivas:

Quote:
But I have no ideas I'm trying to defend. You should be grateful that argument settles nothing, your arguments thus remain unimpeachable.
I agree that you have no ideas.
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  #472  
Old 19th August 2008, 00:02
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Originally Posted by Rosa Lichtenstein View Post
I agree that you have no ideas.
Who needs arguments in order to settle anything? Cutting-and-pasting works for you.
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  #473  
Old 19th August 2008, 00:57
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Trivas:

Quote:
Cutting-and-pasting works for you.
1) I cut and paste my own work.

2) You cut and paste other people's work.

3) Thanks for the inane video link; it makes considerably more sense than dialectics.
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  #474  
Old 19th August 2008, 05:17
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Originally Posted by Rosa Lichtenstein View Post
1) I cut and paste my own work.

2) You cut and paste other people's work.
I see. So it's who one quotes that is pertinent to the argument??
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  #475  
Old 19th August 2008, 06:05
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Trivas:

Quote:
So it's who one quotes that is pertinent to the argument??
You have no ideas of your own, so you have to rely on others.

After all, we already know that "you do not think about things you don't think about".

Moreover:

We still do not know what a 'dialectical contradiction' is -- or if we do, then we also know they cannot exist, and so cannot change anything.
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Basic Introductory Essay: http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/Why%20I%20Oppose%20DM.htm

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